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Post by nanman on May 27, 2008 16:15:34 GMT 3
I am not in denial. There has been a lot of problems in my country. There has been too much han chauvanism. Unfortunately these people make the most noise driving too much nationalism.
I am Han. Of Southern extract too so probably very little northern Mongolian or Manchu mix genertically. But when I study our people's history, I begin to learn more about who I am and what are the Han.
In a way, I wished all the political boundaries meant nothing and we could all see beyond treaties, boundaries, administration etc. Unfortunately, this is hard to attain due to problems that you have mentionned.
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Post by Subu'atai on May 27, 2008 19:03:18 GMT 3
I see, well not every Han feels the way you do. I hope that you do understand this. I understand your individual situation, but for the rest of your kind... it's difficult.
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Post by Temüjin on May 27, 2008 19:47:06 GMT 3
China today has some Steppe features, some Chinese nationalists have complained that Japan and Korea have more Chinese traditions than China itself. one of the most obvious influences is clothing. what many considder traditional Chinese clothing is in fact influenced by the Steppe.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 27, 2008 19:49:33 GMT 3
Verinen Paroni and Temüjin are right. This is not a political forum, and such manners are not allowed here.
Greathun, welcome aboard. This forum is not just for Turkic peoples, but for all peoples that lived and still live in the Steppes.
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Post by nanman on May 27, 2008 19:51:24 GMT 3
I see, well not every Han feels the way you do. I hope that you do understand this. I understand your individual situation, but for the rest of your kind... it's difficult. Yeah, I kind of get what you mean. I agree the same can't be said about my kind. Theres a lot of Han chauvinist making a lot of noise all of the time. I actually think they have caused more problems than our government. But has it ever intrigued you how our kind has evolved over 2000 years? How we shared some common ancestry but gone different ways. How Han Chauvinism at heart is a bit of a syndrome of a dragon mixing with wolves creating a different kind of monster that some of us loathe  . I am intrigued by what the other kind (yourself) has evolved to. This is not trying to justify occupation, lets see this beyond political boundaries. |
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Post by Subu'atai on May 27, 2008 20:06:21 GMT 3
Are you saying that Han Chauvinism is due to Chinese mixed with Altaic? Blood does not make a person, if it does, there would be so such thing as the word "assimilation"
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Post by nanman on May 28, 2008 1:12:17 GMT 3
Are you saying that Han Chauvinism is due to Chinese mixed with Altaic? Blood does not make a person, if it does, there would be so such thing as the word "assimilation" Blood is just one aspect of evolution, culture and surroundings probably has a far greater effect. If blood was the only aspect then the Hans were long finished by the Age of Fragmentation after Eastern Han dynasty around AD 280. But Han Chauvinism probably existed all along. I do not think it was a direct product of Hans mixing with Altaics. What I have been thinking all along has been how the Altaics must have influenced us over the centuries and contributed to our genetic make up. How it must have evolved some aspect of us. Has it ever occured to you to think some of the Han that rule China today are offsprings of Proto-Mongolic officials? Twisted... |
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Post by Subu'atai on May 28, 2008 11:41:51 GMT 3
You contradict yourself nanman
On one hand you say "I do not think it was a direct product of Hans mixing with Altaics." Then on the other you say "some of the Han that rule China today are offsprings of Proto-Mongolic officials"
Influence by blood? False
Influence by knowledge of our ways? Perhaps
If you are raised sedentary, you are sedentary, if you are raised nomadic, you are nomadic - that's a fact. Where your heart lies is what's important. Those Han officials - their hearts are Han thus they are Han.
Accept responsibility for the actions of your own nation.
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Post by nanman on May 28, 2008 18:44:41 GMT 3
Doesn't the contradiction show that our kind is a very confused and complex lot. And perhaps require a bit of understanding?
True, this is still no excuse for actions of a nation to its people.
Are you implying if you are raised sedentary your heart can still be nomadic. If you are raised as Han, your heart can still be Mongol? And Vice versa?
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Post by Subu'atai on May 29, 2008 15:16:40 GMT 3
No, if you are Chinese, you are Chinese. End of story. If your culture and way of life is Chinese, your heart is Chinese. Your spiritual being is a dragon, not a wolf. That is where your heart lies.
And if you are still under the impression that "nomadic blood is what breeds chinese nazis", then you are obviously under a false impression that we are a cruel people by blood. And any Altai will consider that as an insult - so watch your words.
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Post by nanman on May 29, 2008 16:32:29 GMT 3
No, if you are Chinese, you are Chinese. End of story. If your culture and way of life is Chinese, your heart is Chinese. Your spiritual being is a dragon, not a wolf. That is where your heart lies. If everything was this black and white, we would not have so many problems and issues in society. I was not implying this at all. I think you are always trying to pass negative opinions about me and my kind whatever I say. I wanted to express myself that even though I am raised sedentary, I have realised I have a nomadic inner self. I have the spirit of the dragon but that does not mean the dragon has no tendency to seek guidance and freedom from the wolf. May be is because I have drank the water from Altai after visiting this spiritual place. Actually, where abouts exactly is your ancestrial home? Is it in the Altai region of ET? Altai Republic in Russia? Kazakhstan? Western Mongolia? |
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Post by Subu'atai on May 29, 2008 17:50:35 GMT 3
I've read somewhere, but I've forgotten, about one Chinese general who fought alongside Chingghis Khaan, eating the same foods, riding the same horses, living the same lifestyle. Deep inside, he had a spirit of a wolf, not a dragon. However, he was a 'traitor' if you can call him that to his own people.
Nomadic inner self? Your loyalty is with China and Chinese culture, you are raised in China, your family is Chinese. Your spirit is not of a wolf. If it was, then you would not be supporting the Chinese occupation of the steppes.
Ancestrial home is Dzungaria, if you know where that is.
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Post by nanman on May 29, 2008 18:08:58 GMT 3
I was actually in an area of Dzungaria. Junggar Basin in ET?
When was the last time you visited?
BTW I do not support occupation, I wanted to talk about why things have happened from a Chinese perspective. Its not endorsement or justification. I wished things never had to be this way.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 30, 2008 2:36:50 GMT 3
Dear Subu'atai, I think you're going too harsh on Nanman. He is not a typical Chinese who is spreading propaganda. You must have realised that he is different.
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Post by Subu'atai on May 30, 2008 4:38:12 GMT 3
His last comment -> sure, maybe I misunderstood
His previous comments -> I was under the impression he was attempting to justify
Yeah that's fair enough, he doesn't believe in the occupation, so I got no problems with him since his last post.
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. I am intrigued by what the other kind (yourself) has evolved to.