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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2008 11:50:37 GMT 3
Nanman, it seems you support Uyghur seperatism and independence for their country, why is this? I heard there are quite a few of Chinese people who support Uyghurs in their cause but I never had a chance to speak with them.
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Post by nanman on Feb 24, 2008 22:03:02 GMT 3
Hi feramez211
My take on this is that there is a valid case for Uighuristan to be indepedent. Therefore, there is no reason to deny it. The circumstances that Uighuristan was occupied was dubious. Therefore, it has a valid case for indepence. I am thinking about starting a thread about what I think are the main reason how it has come to being occupied from a Chinese's perspective. Its not as simple as in 1949, troops just marched in and captured the area.
As for its current situation, because it has become a part of the country China, I feel they are my fellow countrymen and requires more respect and no more negative stereotyping the indigenous ethnic groups to Uighuristan. It is more important for the time being to be aware of their unfair treatment and suffering that has occured. At the same time, I wish the situation can improve for all of my fellow countrymen in every corner.
I feel in any case, there is a need for Turkey and Turkic countries to work with China on this issue. Gentle behind the scenes dialogue tends to achieve some results. We need to have more mutual understanding of the situation and people to people contact because ultimately its the people in Uighuristan that will be in the firing line if it was independent or not.
If we create more antagonism, its just going increase the cry of desperation by some hard core groups. These hard core groups further alienates the situation and the current regime in China simply ignores them and will probably play into the hands of their state control propaganda machine that the separatists are just nutters hell bent on some Turanism theory that is an extremist group with some flawed arguments anyway.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 24, 2008 22:41:34 GMT 3
Interesting ideas indeed.
Dear Nanman, Turkey is colleborating with China much more than you can imagine. Uyghurs are labelled as "terrorists" by the Turkish government and the official useage of the Eastern Turkistan flag is banned. If the Uyghurs ever organize an event, the Chinese embassy immediately intervenes and prevents that event to be made.
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Post by nanman on Feb 24, 2008 23:08:21 GMT 3
Interesting ideas indeed. Uyghurs are labelled as "terrorists" by the Turkish government and the official useage of the Eastern Turkistan flag is banned. Firstly my view is Uighur people are not terrorists just to clarify. I am sure what you meant to write was Hardcore Uighur Terrorist groups are banned by the Turkish government. I think Turkey can use its influence behind the scenes and discuss more the issue with China. This can influence the Chinese government's policy in Uighuristan allowing more freedom. This could include Turkey sponsoring Uighur cultural events and education institutes with the Chinese government in Uighuristan. This will benefit the people's lives further. I feel sometimes, the governments just tries to ignore the issue rather concentrate on trade and business partnership. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 24, 2008 23:45:34 GMT 3
I understand you  Not just the hardcore separatists, but all Uyghur activists, including peaceful ones, are recognized by Turkey as "terrorists". Turkish politicians are very afraid of China and it's policies indeed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2008 11:13:36 GMT 3
Interesting ideas indeed. Dear Nanman, Turkey is colleborating with China much more than you can imagine. Uyghurs are labelled as "terrorists" by the Turkish government and the official useage of the Eastern Turkistan flag is banned. If the Uyghurs ever organize an event, the Chinese embassy immediately intervenes and prevents that event to be made. Ihsan, you're right and wrong here. Uyghurs aren't labeled as terrorists by the Turkish government. Yes, the Uyghur flag is banned from public view but the police and the government fully allow it in protests, cultural events, etc. They never enforce the ban on the flag. I have Uyghur friends who went to Turkey to study in universities and they told me on their student i.d. cards the school wrote that they're from 'Dogu Turkistan', not 'Xinjiang, China'. Also, once one of the students needed some paper work from the school to get a new Chinese passport because he lost his original. On his paper work the school wrote that the student is from 'Dogu Turkistan'. He's lucky he noticed this before he went to the Chinese embassy and changed it to 'Xinjiang, China'. I don't know where you got this information but the Uyghurs are totally free to show their flag in public and anyway, Turkey has so many Uyghur organizations which support Uyghur seperatism. China knows this but there's not much they can do about it. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2008 21:29:11 GMT 3
I said the official useage is banned For example, there is this Turkic cultures and arts center in the Or-An district in Ankara, which has offices belonging to all the independent and semi-independent Turkic states, but there is no office for Eastern Turkistan, and they can not put the Eastern Turkistanian flag in front of the building. Plus, whenever a Chinese high official or administrator comes to Turkey, Turkish politicians always say they are colleborating with China over "Uyghur terrorists". There are also many examples of Uyghur activities being stopped by the enforcement of the Chinese embassy. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 12:03:18 GMT 3
Well nuts needs to be done about this to stop it. I think it's because Turkey is probably scared that if they openly and officially support Uyghur seperatism that China will start to do the same with Kurdish seperatism. I know both have signed treaties to help and support eachother on their seperatist issues.
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Post by nanman on Feb 28, 2008 2:09:53 GMT 3
Talking about separatism in general, I also feel recently the US is asking for Turkey to take a poison pill. It is stirring up trouble for Turkey in Iraq. At the same time, it is probably pressuring Turkey to accept Kosovo's independence. Basically, a very difficult situation.
Back to the main subject about the occupation of Uighuristan, I think it is possible for the lives of the people of Uighuristan to improve if Turkey can work with the Chinese government in the background. Look at what the Republic of Korea has achieved is a really good example. The Korean ethnic group in China are living very harmoniously and Korean culture is very visible in China. Television programs even come from Korea and lots of exchanges in every field. It is probably easier for Korea to do this because they have a similar confucian culture but it does not it is impossible to bridge the gap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 12:18:04 GMT 3
But China isn't occupying any Korean land, China is occupying Turk land and Turkey is a Turk country. China doesn't trust Turkey when it comes to Uyghurs, they wouldn't work much closer with Turkey when it comes to Uyghurs.
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Post by yelenka on Feb 28, 2008 18:05:04 GMT 3
I think Turkey is always very cautious in its actions when it comes to other Turkic republics. It's mostly all rhetoric, like oh, yes, we are all one nation, let's have more cooperation, etc, and then it stops. Not to overcriticize Turkey, it's doing much more than any other Turkic republic and it has to take into account China, Russia, US, etc, and it has its own problems with the Kurds and Nothern Iraq and the crazy politicians with the headscarf issue, but I think that if we ever move forward, this change will come from Turkey as the strongest and most modern country among us. As long as Turkey plays it safe, nothing will happen...
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Post by nanman on Feb 28, 2008 20:22:52 GMT 3
But China isn't occupying any Korean land, China is occupying Turk land and Turkey is a Turk country. China doesn't trust Turkey when it comes to Uyghurs, they wouldn't work much closer with Turkey when it comes to Uyghurs. Actually China is arguably occupy land that is claimed by Korea en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanbian_Korean_Autonomous_PrefectureThe whole NE provinces of China has areas that nationalistic Koreans claim as part of the ancient Koryo kingdom. The Chang Bai San area in China is very sacred to people of Korean Ethnicity and to Chinese. There has been some disputes in this area. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Apr 6, 2008 17:37:56 GMT 3
Chinks and bullnuts, they even dared claim Chingghis Khaan as an 'ethnic minority hero' and Chinese. Like WTF!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 8, 2008 21:33:42 GMT 3
Yes indeed. I would still understand them claiming Qubilai Qa'an and his successors in China as Chinese Rulers somehow, but claiming Chinggis Qan is just absolutely not logical.
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Post by Subu'atai on Apr 8, 2008 22:00:29 GMT 3
It is very typical of Han people to claim the achievements of others to make up for their lacking. Much of modern Han land is attributed to the conquest of China by Manchuria in the first place. Incredible that Manchus are now completely outnumbered and assimilated nowadays, 'but they are Chinese!' they say, 'So are Mongolians, they also Chinese!'
Heh only problem is that this world is now materialised and it's all about money, numbers, nuclear threat, and diplomacy - to the point that those little Hans can actually claim lands that they never even conquered in the first place - and hold it.
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