Iranic Central Asia

[ALTAR]

Aug 7, 2008 23:17:53 GMT 3 Temüjin said:

actually this girl was used as "evidence" by that scientist that Central Asian Sakas did not dissapear but were assimilated by Eastern newcommers. and there are also blonde people in Afghanistan surroudned by Turkic or iranic people on all sides, that prooves nothign since those areas, particularly Afghanistan, were subject to many migrations. you can also find albinos in africa and i remember seeing a black african with natural blonde hair. such oddities can happen everywhere. even the famous Tarim mummies from East Turkestan show how far east Caucasian-lookign people reached in ancient times. fact is, and you cannot deny this, that blonde Turks are the exception and not the rule and one blonde Kazakh girl amongst millions which are not prooves nothing.

This girl is blonde and Turk. Nothing else !

I can add blond Tuva, Khakass and other Turk girls too. They are so many than the trickers think try to impose their nutss. Their brain is so small like that every Turk should be seem like a Mongolian, if he doesnot, he/she is a racemixing person.

What a brainless logic !

[Temüjin]

you cannot talk about blonde Turks in one thread and muse about "typical Turkic features" in another thread. the mixing of races is a fact, whether you accept it or not.

[Verinen Paroni]

Aug 8, 2008 23:32:15 GMT 3 Temüjin said:

you cannot talk about blonde Turks in one thread and muse about "typical Turkic features" in another thread. the mixing of races is a fact, whether you accept it or not.

Well, there is no any evidence that Turkic people are racially-mixed.

[Temüjin]

but Turkic speaking populations look quite different depending on region and even within the same country. even Ihsan has already mentioned here that Balkan Turks have a lighter hair colour than Anatolian Turks.

[Verinen Paroni]

Aug 8, 2008 23:48:03 GMT 3 Temüjin said:

but Turkic speaking populations look quite different depending on region and even within the same country. even Ihsan has already mentioned here that Balkan Turks have a lighter hair colour than Anatolian Turks.

I think that we should both to go to Turkey and travel in whole country, so we could be 100% sure.

I have not seen many Turkic people in real life. Just few local Tatars and two tourists from Turkey.

[Temüjin]

i was in Turkey two years ago and traveled from Istanbul to Alanya via Izmir. we also visited Nomads near Alanya on the way. and i see Turks in Germany almost daily.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Of course mixing of races has been around throughout the world at least since the neolithic period, but it's amount varies from region to region and from time to time.

[ALTAR]

Aug 8, 2008 23:32:15 GMT 3 Temüjin said:

you cannot talk about blonde Turks in one thread and muse about "typical Turkic features" in another thread. the mixing of races is a fact, whether you accept it or not.

I agree race mixing is a reality in the whole world.

But you dont understand the fact that All Blonds Turks arenot borning by race-mixing. We have many blond Turks(Racially pure Turks) from Siberia to Balkans.

Believe or Not. It is your problem.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Uhm, I personally believe that there was no reason to lock this topic, because there isn't any arguement going on, we are just discussing Thus, I re-open the topic, but if things turn into an arguement, it will be I who will lock this thread first.

Of course there can be blonde Turks, and this doesn't necessarily mean that they are all of non-Turkic origin. As I stated before, climates and other factors can also determine hair and eye color.

What we mean by "typical Turkic features" (and it was I who used this term) is slightly slanted eyes, white or light brown skin, brunette and/or black hair and black and/or brown eyes. However, throughout the entire Turkic world, you can see people who do not fit in this category. Apart from race mixing, one should also consider weather conditions too.

Oh and btw... I personally think it would not be logical to link the blonde Qazaq girl to the Saka, because the Asian Saka are known to be quiet dark haired, contrary to the Scythians in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe. Besides, it's inaccurate to call the Saka in Asia as "Scythians", because Scythian is a name used only for the Saka living in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe - the Scythians are known to have different physical traits from the other Asian Saka. And there are no evidences of a Scythian (Pontic-Caspian Saka) migration eastwards.

[tengrikut]

Thank you for your attentive approach to the topic, ihsan


by the way, antropologists agree that the climate has an affect of %60-70 on the apperiance and genetics has only between %30-40.

if a race moves to another climate, the first thing changes is that the nose and after the nose shape than skin comes. because breathing is the primary objective which can be affected from climate to climate. i mean heart keeps allways running it is not affected by the climate, but breathing is different. and the skin is as impotant as nose in breathing. so they answers the climate variations first. it is something like evolution. and the last thing changes is genital parts.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes indeed, that can be easily seen in Turkey, for example. The village folk living high up in the mountains of Northeastern Turkey tend to have a very light skin plus blonde hair and colored eyes while the village folk in the plains of Southern Turkey tend to have darker skin and brunette/dark hair and brown/black eyes, because they usually work at the fields under the bright sun. But if you go several kilometers and visit the nomadic or recently-setteled Yörüks in the Taurus Mountains,you can see that they have lighter skin and lighter hair-eye color.

[Azadan Januspar]

by the way, antropologists agree that the climate has an affect of %60-70 on the apperiance and genetics has only between %30-40.

if a race moves to another climate, the first thing changes is that the nose and after the nose shape than skin comes. because breathing is the primary objective which can be affected from climate to climate. i mean heart keeps allways running it is not affected by the climate, but breathing is different. and the skin is as impotant as nose in breathing. so they answers the climate variations first. it is something like evolution. and the last thing changes is genital parts.

That is kind of think that should be mentioned here, tengrikut, it is interesting where did you get this information?

By the way Ihsan I think mostly to the climate in those times given the accounts the Iranic rider folks of the steppes tended to have light skins brown or blond as well as black hair. Where do you read about that Sakas' appearance?

[tengrikut]

Aug 9, 2008 13:22:12 GMT 3 Azadan Januspar said:

by the way, antropologists agree that the climate has an affect of %60-70 on the apperiance and genetics has only between %30-40.

if a race moves to another climate, the first thing changes is that the nose and after the nose shape than skin comes. because breathing is the primary objective which can be affected from climate to climate. i mean heart keeps allways running it is not affected by the climate, but breathing is different. and the skin is as impotant as nose in breathing. so they answers the climate variations first. it is something like evolution. and the last thing changes is genital parts.

That is kind of think that should be mentioned here, tengrikut, it is interesting where did you get this information?

By the way Ihsan I think mostly to the climate in those times given the accounts the Iranic rider folks of the steppes tended to have light skins brown or blond as well as black hair. Where do you read about that Sakas' appearance?

i like anthropology and everyone knows that facts who are interested in anthropology

but there is one thing: the changings never happen fastly. it keeps changing from generation to generation

[Temüjin]

Aug 9, 2008 2:21:55 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

As I stated before, climates and other factors can also determine hair and eye color.

i agree, as well as Region as tengrikut mentioned. this could be called "mutations" but many people are perhaps not happy with this term as it implies degenerations which is not the case at all.

Oh and btw... I personally think it would not be logical to link the blonde Qazaq girl to the Saka, because the Asian Saka are known to be quiet dark haired, contrary to the Scythians in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe. Besides, it's inaccurate to call the Saka in Asia as "Scythians", because Scythian is a name used only for the Saka living in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe - the Scythians are known to have different physical traits from the other Asian Saka. And there are no evidences of a Scythian (Pontic-Caspian Saka) migration eastwards.

Sakas incl. Scythians are well known for logn hair and beards, Turks also had long hair but not really much facial hair. the mummy found in Eastern Altay i think had a long beard.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

By the way Ihsan I think mostly to the climate in those times given the accounts the Iranic rider folks of the steppes tended to have light skins brown or blond as well as black hair. Where do you read about that Sakas' appearance?

It was many years ago, during my early years of my bachelor's. Sorry, I can't give you an exact book/article title.

Sakas incl. Scythians are well known for logn hair and beards, Turks also had long hair but not really much facial hair. the mummy found in Eastern Altay i think had a long beard.

Činggis Qan, a Mongol, had long beard. Was he Iranic? ;D ;D ;D