Where did the earliest Turkic tribe move from?

[arnewise12]

were did the earliest turkic tribe move from, I mean , the asian huns forefathers were the xun yu and xiun yu and other steppe people, but they hade a comman with the ancestors of the mongols called the quan di or something, , were did the forefahters of the earlest turks come from, did they come form the same area the indians of america went from

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

We had a similar thread here:

steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=board14&action=display&thread=401

The earliest homelands of Turkic peoples, as far as I couls spot, is Mongolia, Eastern Kazakhstan and the Yenisei Basin in Southern Siberia. This earliest homeland stretches from Ordos in Inner Mongolia up to Lake Baikal.

Btw, it's where, not were

[Alanus]

I think the early Turkic shamens had incredibly similar clothing to the native American shamens. Both movies on Ghengis Khan show the costumes correctly, and an early example has been found at Issyk Kul. The same outfit and ritual was used by the Saka/Massagetae. Evidently consistant throughout the steppes and up into Siberia.

The river Yenisy basin also had Saka living there. Probably the first Turkic speakers to reach Europe were the Black Huns-- Uldin, Atilla, Blaeda-- all those guys who, through intermarriage, had Gothic names.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Apr 26, 2010 18:08:34 GMT 3 Alanus said:

I think the early Turkic shamens had incredibly similar clothing to the native American shamens. Both movies on Ghengis Khan show the costumes correctly, and an early example has been found at Issyk Kul. The same outfit and ritual was used by the Saka/Massagetae. Evidently consistant throughout the steppes and up into Siberia.

Unfortunately we don't have any depictions of how ancient and early medieval Turkic shamans dressed, but we have some accounts of their rituals found in various Byzantine and Arabo-Persian sources. However, we can guess that the dresses of ancient and early medieval Turkic shamans were not so different from those worn by 19th-21th century Siberians shamans

Apr 26, 2010 18:08:34 GMT 3 Alanus said:

Probably the first Turkic speakers to reach Europe were the Black Huns-- Uldin, Atilla, Blaeda-- all those guys who, through intermarriage, had Gothic names.

Actually the Oghurs and Agatzirs were in Europe before the Huns were. Plus, the Greeks recorded the name of the River Ural during the Sarmatian period as Daikh, which is actually Turkic Yayïq, which shows us that the Turkic language was already in useage in the area.

By the way, Uldin is probably Uldïz or Yulduz meaning "Star" in Old Turkic, so it's not Gothic. Attila's name is dubious; the form we know looks like a Gothic name meaning "Little Father", but it might have been the Gothified version of a Turkic name such as Ätil meaning "River". As for Bleda's name, there is no doubt that it's non-Turkic (I'm not sure, but maybe Gothic-Germanic).

[Alanus]

Apr 27, 2010 18:37:40 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Actually the Oghurs and Agatzirs were in Europe before the Huns were. Plus, the Greeks recorded the name of the River Ural during the Sarmatian period as Daikh, which is actually Turkic Yayïq, which shows us that the Turkic language was already in useage in the area.

By the way, Uldin is probably Uldïz or Yulduz meaning "Star" in Old Turkic, so it's not Gothic. Attila's name is dubious; the form we know looks like a Gothic name meaning "Little Father", but it might have been the Gothified version of a Turkic name such as Ätil meaning "River". As for Bleda's name, there is no doubt that it's non-Turkic (I'm not sure, but maybe Gothic-Germanic).

Thanks for the above.
The Oghurs? There is a growing Hungarian "oriental theory" that the Magyars and Oghurs may have come from common ancestors. The premise is this: Hungarians ate spicy (oriental) food and were a horse-oiented steppe culture, rather than Uralic.

Here's more! A recent genetic study of Kazakhstan's Madjars and haplogroup G, "showed that they were closest to the Hungarian population rather than their geographical neighbors." Does this indicate genetic contact between the Madjars and Magyars? And, indeed, were the Huns and "Hungarians" also related?

[hjernespiser]

It's a theory that's been "growing" for over 1000 years. I'm not saying it's right, only that this isn't a new theory and that you may not be prepared for the discussion you're about to step into.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Ah, we have discussed those issue many times before in various threads

[Alanus]

May 6, 2010 2:23:42 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Ah, we have discussed those issue many times before in various threads

Ah! Good.
I'll drop the potato.

[hjernespiser]

Yea, that's a pretty hot potato.

Since you mentioned the Kazakh Madjars (and since you're familiar with Harmatta), I think you should read this: steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=board20&action=display&thread=920

[arlan]

What would you say if I say there are evidence of turic living in Acient Egypt and even ruling the nation.

[sarmat]

Right, do you have also the evidence of "Turic" living and even ruling on Mars?

[sarmat]

Apr 27, 2010 18:37:40 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Actually the Oghurs and Agatzirs were in Europe before the Huns were. Plus, the Greeks recorded the name of the River Ural during the Sarmatian period as Daikh, which is actually Turkic Yayïq, which shows us that the Turkic language was already in useage in the area.

There are more on this. River Don/Tanais could be easily explained from Turkic "Tynys" which meand "Quite." Interestingly, "Quite Don" is a usual description that is given to the river in Russian. There is even a famous Cossack novel with this name, for which the author got the Nobel Prize.

And there are even some researches suggesting that Borisfen (Greek name of Dnieper also coming from Turkic), moreover most of the names of Scythians gods and kings are Turkic as well...

[hjernespiser]

So, what's the current academic consensus on where the earliest Turks came from?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

What would you say if I say there are evidence of turic living in Acient Egypt and even ruling the nation.

I won't believe that.

Right, do you have also the evidence of "Turic" living and even ruling on Mars?

LOL ;D

Didn't you know that God is "Turic" as well? ;D

There are more on this. River Don/Tanais could be easily explained from Turkic "Tynys" which meand "Quite." Interestingly, "Quite Don" is a usual description that is given to the river in Russian. There is even a famous Cossack novel with this name, for which the author got the Nobel Prize.

Really?? I thought the names Don, Dnyepr, Dnyestr and Danube all come from an Iranic word meaning "water" Never heard that theory though, sounds interesting.

And there are even some researches suggesting that Borisfen (Greek name of Dnieper also coming from Turkic), moreover most of the names of Scythians gods and kings are Turkic as well...

Yes, the Scythian name Boristhenes (or however it's written like) has always reminded me the Old Turkic word Böri (wolf). Papaios, the chief Scythian god, looks like the Oghuz word Baba meaning "Father", but the problem with this identification would be that we don't know the useage of the word Baba in Old Turkic (instead of it, we have Ata and Qañ). Artimpasa, another Scythian god, looks like having at least one Turkic word, Ärdäm meaning "virtue". I don't know of any other examples.

So, what's the current academic consensus on where the earliest Turks came from?

As far as I know, the general consensus is southern Siberia, the Yenisei Basin and the area south and west of Lake Baikal.

[arlan]

Do you know the funny thing is in history. In the big picture world history is FAKE dummy. Its like puzzle where you should have Lion in the picture but you get chimera. (Moreover from science we know that chimeras are not fit to survive)