Yakuts and Dolgans

[BAWIR$AQ]

verinenparoni said:

It was a Tlingit himself who called them to "filthy redskins" for me.

Then he is simply brain-washed by Europeans.

For Europeans, who invented those words, he is no better than other Native Americans. So it is really stupid of him to call them "filthy redskins".

I meant clovis-culture but those who for example built those totems were not part of that clovis-culture but they came much later.

Of course! Clovis culture was prominent in what is the US and Central America. How can it possible be connected to Tlingit who only settled in the Northwest?

Native American cultures are very diverse, and many of them didn't make any totem poles.

But nevertheless, all of them ARE Native Americans, or as you like to refer to them "Indians".

[Verinen Paroni]

For Europeans, who invented those words, he is no better than other Native Americans. So it is really stupid of him to call them "filthy redskins".

Well, he just don't consider to neither redskins nor europeans to his brothers, so what is wrong?

And I have nothing against redskins. I even want that US and Canada governments give back their old areas to them and let them free independent.

BTW: Happen to know what was very common text on doors of bars until 1960-1970's in Michigan and Minnesota?

It was "No negroes, indians or finns allowed".

So, I can even understand their situation.

[kokturk]

In Turkish we say "Kızılderili", meaning redskin. But there is nothing called "Turkish racism", so we do not use that word as an insult.

As a same manner, we also use the word "Zenci", meaning black person

[BAWIR$AQ]

kokturk said:

In Turkish we say "Kızılderili", meaning redskin. But there is nothing called "Turkish racism",

The term "redskin" was adapted from English by many languages around the world, but that still doesn't make it less offensive.

----------------------------------
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:

redskin

- Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a Native American
----------------------------------
www.bartleby.com/61/64/R0106400.html

so we do not use that word as an insult

Duh, that's because you don't have anyone who can be insulted.

[BAWIR$AQ]

verinenparoni said:

Well, he just don't consider to redskins to his brothers, so what is wrong?

Doesn't he know that all of the Native Americans came from the same place and through the same route, just in defferent time?

BTW: Happen to know what was very common text on doors of bars until 1960-1970's in Michigan and Minnesota?

It was "No negroes, indians or finns allowed".

Really? Any sources?

[Verinen Paroni]

bawirsaq said:

verinenparoni said:

Well, he just don't consider to redskins to his brothers, so what is wrong?

Doesn't he know that all of the Native Americans came from the same place and through the same route, just in defferent time?

BTW: Happen to know what was very common text on doors of bars until 1960-1970's in Michigan and Minnesota?

It was "No negroes, indians or finns allowed".

Really? Any sources?

In your logic I should call russian immigrants in Finland to my brothers, because now they come through the same route what my ancestors once came to here.

Sources? Just heard that from many Finns whose family lived there and it is true.

And in 1920's even US congress discussed about moving all Finns out of America.

Just indians and negroes were not victims of racism there. KKK killed also italians and also Irish people were attacked earlier many times.

[BAWIR$AQ]

verinenparoni said:

In your logic I should call russian immigrants in Finland to my brothers, because now they come through the same route what my ancestors once came to here.

No, wrong conclusion.

Tlingit language is a part of the large Na-Dene language family which includes tribes like Apache and Navajo living in the contiguous US.

Distribution of Na-Dene languages before contact with Europeans:


So, as you can see, Tlingit people have relatives among "filthy redskins" and "typical Indians" (as you like to refer to them).

This shows just how ignorant some modern people are, not knowing the history of their people and of their continent.

And you suggest that we learn from such people. Sorry, but I don't think I can become "more smart" from people ignorant of their own history.

1920's even US congress discussed about moving all Finns out of America.

1920s were crazy in terms of anti-immigrant feelings, but I never heard about that.

Here's a nice article about Finn-Americans: www.loc.gov/rr/european/FinnsAmer/finchro.html

Nothing about removing Finns. Do you have sources?

[aca]

We know that first Native Americans came to America about 12-14000 years ago. Those migrations from Siberia to America continued all the way to arround 1000 AD, when Yupik people (the mostwestern Eskimos living in Alaska and Siberia) crossed the Bering sea.
Those Eskimos were probably pushed towards east by so-called Paleo-Siberian peoples (mainly Chukchis) of Kamchatka and Okhotsk sea.
At the same time, Yukagirs, the native inhabitants of Yakutia, were pushed north by the new coming Evenk (Tungus).
Finally, a mixture of Turkic and Mongolian clans moved to Yakutia in XIII-XIV c. bringing with them their language and culture - and forming modern Sakha people.

About Sakha and some Native American cultural similarities...
Tlingit people of Alaska belongs to Na-Dene language group, together with Athabaskan, Navajo, Apache etc. languages

Na-Dene languages

Now, it is clear that ancestors of Navajo and Apache peoples pushed Uto-Aztecan peoples further to the South, splitting them in two separated groups - Northern (Shoshoni, Comanche etc.) & Southern (Toltec, Aztec etc.). So, this happened before the foundation of the Aztec culture in XIII c.

This means that, aproximatly at the same time when ancestors of Sakha were moving north to settle in Yakutia, some tribes of Na-Dene language family were moving South from Canada. Between those two groups stood Eskimo, Paleo-Siberian, Yukagir and Tungus peoples...
Sakha (or Turks in general) and Native Americans can be related only if some Turkic tribe, long before Sakha inhabited Yakutia, teleported itself from Altay to Alaska, jumping over numerous Tungus, Yukagir, Paleo-Siberian and Eskimo peoples.

Cultural similarities are something else... Culture and way of life mostly depend on climate and weather conditions of a certain region. No need to say that the climate of Eastern Siberia and Alaska is almost the same.
So, peoples of Siberia brought their culture to Alaska and Canada, and Sakha people addopted some aspects of it after they moved North to Siberia.

P.S. Agree with Bawirsaq about the "redskin" issue.

[Deleted]

Yea, wow. I wasn't in this topic for a few days and look what happened. I stand behind BAWIR$AQ all the way. I'm not even being biased. Them having relations with Turks has no influence on me. Whether they're related to Turks or not, the Native American genocide is the only "true" genocide I will ever recognise. Their land being invaded and the Africans being taken from Africa as slaves are one of the biggest crimes in world history. But it's over looked just because white, christian europeans did it......BULLnuts!! Man, I'd love to see some proof in American history that Finns being victimized by the goevernment. f**k's wrong with you?

[BAWIR$AQ]

verinenparoni said:

I believe words from those Finns who never wanted to adopt filthy american way of life. That Taru Spiegel is not even pure Finn, so what thatkind of mixed sleeper can tell?

OK, my sources come from "filthy" Americans, but you didn't provide any at all.

[aca]

Sakha archer
by I. V. Popov

[Verinen Paroni]

Whether they're related to Turks or not, the Native American genocide is the only "true" genocide I will ever recognise. Their land being invaded and the Africans being taken from Africa as slaves are one of the biggest crimes in world history.

Well, you are right concerning genocides against them in Northern-, Southern-, and Central-America and it was bad crime and I think (like I said before) that all tribes should get their own historical areas back and possibility to also rule those areas. It was big crime started by Spain and continued by mainly dutch, anglo-saxons, french and portuguese.

And negro-slavery (negro-slavery is historical term and not racist) was also crime and I condemn also that. But also arabs enslaved much africans in East-Africa. That is similar way crime.

But it's over looked just because white, christian europeans did it......BULLnuts!!

Christian europeans also invaded my country and killed 1/3 of my people, but almost no one considers that a crime. For example few months ago there was document in Turkish television about sweden being racist country, and they mentioned only about their crimes against Saamis (Well, my Saami-brothers sufered same way like my nation, that is true and sweden is quilty to crimes against them) and gipsies (There habe not ever been even many gipsies in sweden), but nothing about their crimes against my nation...

Man, I'd love to see some proof in American history that Finns being victimized by the goevernment.

Not victimized by government, but many other nations disliked us alot and did not want similar rights for us as they had. It is true.

Of course Amer-Americans (If I should use term African-American, that should be term for Native Americans then;) ) and blacks suffered many times more than us.

[Deleted]

feramez211 said:

Yea, wow. I wasn't in this topic for a few days and look what happened. I stand behind BAWIR$AQ all the way. I'm not even being biased. Them having relations with Turks has no influence on me. Whether they're related to Turks or not, the Native American genocide is the only "true" genocide I will ever recognise. Their land being invaded and the Africans being taken from Africa as slaves are one of the biggest crimes in world history. But it's over looked just because white, christian europeans did it......BULLnuts!! Man, I'd love to see some proof in American history that Finns being victimized by the goevernment. f**k's wrong with you?

I apologize for my language in this post, especially at the end of the post. I had a too much to drink and was already angry because of a fight with the girlfriend not too long before that....sorry.

[Verinen Paroni]

feramez211 said:

feramez211 said:

Yea, wow. I wasn't in this topic for a few days and look what happened. I stand behind BAWIR$AQ all the way. I'm not even being biased. Them having relations with Turks has no influence on me. Whether they're related to Turks or not, the Native American genocide is the only "true" genocide I will ever recognise. Their land being invaded and the Africans being taken from Africa as slaves are one of the biggest crimes in world history. But it's over looked just because white, christian europeans did it......BULLnuts!! Man, I'd love to see some proof in American history that Finns being victimized by the goevernment. f**k's wrong with you?

I apologize for my language in this post, especially at the end of the post. I had a too much to drink and was already angry because of a fight with the girlfriend not too long before that....sorry.

That happens also to me quite often, so cannot condemn you. It was understoodful behaviour and I should also apologize my behaviour...Sorry also.

[BAWIR$AQ]

verinenparoni said:

Man, I'd love to see some proof in American history that Finns being victimized by the goevernment.

Not victimized by government, but many other nations disliked us alot and did not want similar rights for us as they had.

Not victimized by the American government?

What about your previous statements?

verinenparoni said:

BTW: Happen to know what was very common text on doors of bars until 1960-1970's in Michigan and Minnesota?

It was "No negroes, indians or finns allowed".

verinenparoni said:

1920's even US congress discussed about moving all Finns out of America.