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Post by ceonni on Feb 29, 2008 7:08:19 GMT 3
Salar Forum: The Only Official Oghuz Group in China www.salars.cn/bbs/The Salars have been in Qinghai Province, China since the Mongol Yuan period. For centuries they've maintained their Oghuz language remarkably similar to the Turkmen language spoken in the Qaraqum. However, culturally they have strictly conformed to the Naqshbandi ways of their Hui coreligionists. Therefore many nomadic Turkmen traditions have been lost, and Turkmen music was forbidden. More secular minded Salars have resorted to appropriating Tibetan or Moghol (a Qinghai Mongolic Muslim group) music as their own. Luckily, a Turkist revival is now raging through the 300,000 strong Salar community in Qinghai. They have re-surrected the Dede Qorqut Destani, Oghuz Xan Destani as their own national narrative, and also translated the late Turkmenbashy's work "Ruhnama" into both Salar and Chinese. China, indeed, is the new Kyzyl Elma.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 11:13:15 GMT 3
Wow, I'll check this out. Are you Salar? Also, I thought Salar belongs to the Karluk/Chaghatay branch, not Oghuz.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 1, 2008 3:06:03 GMT 3
Very interesting group indeed
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Post by ceonni on Mar 1, 2008 3:19:02 GMT 3
Ben Tungan'im. The Tungan and Salar have very similar cultures except the Tungans have linguistically assimilated into the surrounding Chinese dialects. However, they share many same family names and belong to the same varieties of Naqshbandi and Khubrawi sufi orders.
Salars are definitely NOT of the Qarluk/Chagatay branch as the Uyghurs and Uzbeks are. Salar language is a dialect of Qaraqum Turkmen which nonetheless has appropriated some Chinese vocab.
Please do go on the forum and introduce yourselves and you will certainly be able to communicate with the majority of Salar speakers there using either Azeri or Qaraqum Turkmence.
The Salars were part of the Salur/Salyr/Salghur tribe of Khorasan during the Genghis conquest. One Salyr leader offer to send his leutenant Qaraman and Aqman to the Mongols as mercenaries, thus sparing the Turkmens the same fate as the aristocracy of Khwarezm Shah.
Qaraman and Aqman participated in the seige of the Song city of Diaoyu in Sichuan, in a way similar to the Chinese/Khitay general Guo Kan's participation in the siege of Baghdad. However, the siege of Diaoyu was some 40 years after the Genghis conquest of Khwarezm. The Turkmen/Salar participants of that siege was very likely descendants of the original Qaraman and Aqman acquired by Genghis.
Later, Qaraman settled in the Xunhua county of Qinghai. His followers never lost their Turkmen language, unlike followers of the Qomul Uyghurs in Taoyuan, Hunan, or those of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar in Yunnan. The Taoyuan Uyghurs were almost completely Sinicized, complete with pork in their diet and a secular outlook (or the Qomulluks were never Muslim Uyghurs to begin with). But their "Uyghur" ethnicity was restored by the Communist government in 1949. And now they are inviting akhunds from East Turkestan to re-indoctrinate them of the ways of Islam. The Yunnan Khwarezmians have become a major source for China's Hui/Tungan Muslim population. In Thailand and Burma, these Chinese-speaking Huis are known as "Chin-Ho" or "Panthay"---"little flower people", strangely named.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 1, 2008 3:25:05 GMT 3
The Salars of China now venerate Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and, hehe, Baris Manco.
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pantigin
Tudun
Without Uighurs, there was no Mahmud and without him, there is no complete stories of Turks !
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Post by pantigin on Mar 1, 2008 7:35:30 GMT 3
This is most authorized conclusion on Salar language : It has two large dialect groups. The divergence is due to the fact that one branch was influenced by the Tibetan and Chinese languages, and the other branch by the Uyghur and Kazakh languages. Only about one third of Salar speak their own language. In addition to Chinese, many Salar also speak Tibetan. Salar is not a written language. There are reported similarities with Turkmen.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 1, 2008 8:28:44 GMT 3
throughout the last two centuries, Salar mullas have recorded their language in Arabic script called "Turk Dili". Today, the Azeri alphabet has been adopted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2008 11:33:41 GMT 3
You're Tungan, that's Hui, right?
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Post by kokturk on Mar 1, 2008 12:14:48 GMT 3
Wow, my mother is from Salur tribe of the Oghuz. I'll be a member of this group.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 2, 2008 8:01:15 GMT 3
All Iranian Turkmens from Khorasan, all Qaraqum Turkmenistanis, all Iraqi Turkmens, all Azeris, all Yoruks of Turkeys, have been claimed by my friends from the Salar Forum to have been automatically accepted as members of the Salar Nationality.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 2, 2008 8:18:55 GMT 3
Salar Forum: The Only Official Oghuz Group in China www.salars.cn/bbs/The Salars have been in Qinghai Province, China since the Mongol Yuan period. For centuries they've maintained their Oghuz language remarkably similar to the Turkmen language spoken in the Qaraqum. However, culturally they have strictly conformed to the Naqshbandi ways of their Hui coreligionists. Therefore many nomadic Turkmen traditions have been lost, and Turkmen music was forbidden. More secular minded Salars have resorted to appropriating Tibetan or Moghol (a Qinghai Mongolic Muslim group) music as their own. Luckily, a Turkist revival is now raging through the 300,000 strong Salar community in Qinghai. They have re-surrected the Dede Qorqut Destani, Oghuz Xan Destani as their own national narrative, and also translated the late Turkmenbashy's work "Ruhnama" into both Salar and Chinese. China, indeed, is the new Kyzyl Elma. =============== Some of the newly incorporated Turkic literature now being recognized by the Qinghai Turkmens (Salars) www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1269&highlight=The Uygur version of the Destan "Oguzname" being translated back into Salarca through Chinese www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1229&extra=page%3D1Ruhname One (these are translated into Chinese, but original Turkmence was posted without any translation and the Salars claim to fully understand Ruhname written in Turkmence) www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1241&extra=page%3D1Ruhname Two www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1376&highlight=Ruhname Three www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1468&highlight=Ruhname Four www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1676&highlight=Ruhname Five www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1212&highlight=Ruhname in its original Turkmence www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1216Ruhname transcribed in General Turkic Alphabet www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1250&extra=page%3D1Dede Korkut Destani in English (as reference for the Salarization of the work) www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1244&page=4Dede Korkut Destani in its original Azeri. No translation at all. And the Salars fully understand it the way it is. www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1258&extra=page%3D1The Dede Korkut Destani is also translated into Chinese, for the benefit of the one half of Salars who would never have thought of using General Turkic Alphabet to transcribe their language, or the Tungan Huis who have Turkic ancestry. www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1194&highlight=Salar alphabet. Three versions. One of them is based on the General Turkic Alphabet applicable to both Azeri and Qirim Tatar. www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1247Salar interest in H. B. Paksoy www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1295&highlight=The Oguz Han Destani in its original Uygur, Chinese and Salar translation www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1367&highlight=SALAR DASTAN: OGUZXANNAMA www.salars.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1321&page=1#pid4400Kutadgu Bilig with Uyghur, Qazaq, Salar, Turkce and chinese versions compared.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 3, 2008 1:52:24 GMT 3
Very interesting indeed Btw, I thought the Iraqi Turkmens were mostly from the tribe of Bayat.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 3, 2008 2:05:58 GMT 3
The Salars of Qinghai actually consists of not only descendants of Salyrs, but also other Turkmen tribes.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 3, 2008 2:31:20 GMT 3
Ah ok, I see.
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Post by ceonni on Mar 6, 2008 6:29:58 GMT 3
I've updated the links above to include Kutadgu Bilig and Oguzxan, etc. The Salars keep posting great literary works in various Turkic languages. I will keep updating.
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