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Kypchak
Nov 29, 2005 23:19:01 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 29, 2005 23:19:01 GMT 3
Thanks a lot! You saved them from my work which looks much poor and terreble in information than yours. That best explain Kazakhs. Do you have any information about "Alash"? I heard about it but coudn't get the hand on it. Intresting thing more I search about Kypchaks I find their story same as Kazakhs. What I mean word Kypchaks have the old translation which is "people with the big tragedy" or "unlucky ones". Kyrgiz claim they have the history of more than 2000 years and as a proof they talk about Enissei and the epick hero Manas. They also claim that Kypchaks fought with them from the begining with changing victory but word "kipchak" in literature only appears in 7th century. So as most historians consider Kypchaks are Sayantos long forgotten nation distroyed by Oguz khaganate or some thing like that. Would be happy if you will comment on this but more greatfull if you will comment of work of Kolaksay!!!
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Kypchak
Nov 28, 2005 22:46:48 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 28, 2005 22:46:48 GMT 3
Men! I would not suggest you to look into the meaning of work Kazakh. I am still in debate over this topic with historians. Just consider that word Kazakh uses all the people who left the heretage and kingdom due to the political resons or personal. Many historical figures such as sultans and halives also have been Kazakhs before recieving the suprime power. It was adopted later by small tribes who lived in central asia. To unite chose word Kazakh. (ilke chineese! Chineese consits of 33 nations and maybe more).
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Kypchak
Nov 23, 2005 14:19:38 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 23, 2005 14:19:38 GMT 3
IN history we have a mongol tribe that left Mongoliya and moved into Deshty-Qipchaks. As they settled in the new land they renamed the tribe and took the name of the new land! Qipchak!!! Much later when Chingiis Khaan invaded the stepps then passed out, leaving Batu Khan with the great mission to expand the land Batu Khaan needed a new and strong army. He found that Deshty-Qipchaks had fine nomad soldiers and he needed to organized them under something big! So he invided Mongol "Qipchak" to make the ruling family of all other tribes who were under the control of Batu. So later other tribes not connected to Qipchaks in any relation took the name of the ruling family and started to call themself Qipchaks. Mongol-Qipchaks. I don't think that relatives would fight relatives for someone else victory. So nowdays we have a little more people that try to connect their heratege and tribe to Qipchaks. But it is easy to uncover the truth.
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Kypchak
Nov 22, 2005 23:10:28 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 22, 2005 23:10:28 GMT 3
Before Kimaks came to the land of Kypchaks. Kypchaks were seperated into small clans. Kimaks came organazed as whole and took the ruling class from the beginig. Later we united but the name Kimek was left. In Kimek kingdom was two nations. Kimeks(Naimans) & Kypchaks. Close to the 12 century Kypchaks started to rise and fight for the place under the sun.When mongols first time came Kypchaks first rose and united slovaks and kimeks before the invaders. It was a hard battle as no one wanted to work organazed. Never the less the battle was won in some ways! Mongols stoped the invesion. After that kypchaks prepared but Kimeks didn't want to fight. They even fought for the power to dominate Kypchaks. They went to far when they killed the only son of Khan Kotyan in attemp to cut the ruling heir. So Khan Kotyan wanted to avenge to son and started the war with kimeks(naimans). To save the nation kimeks called for help Batu Khan, who was just waiting for the moment. So he lunched the invasion. The enemy was large! No one could match it! Kimeks(naimans) joined the hord. Slovaks had their problems. They couldn't even unite themselves, not to say to march together against a great danger. So slovaks decided to fight individualy, every town for themselves. Kypchaks had no choice than to leave home as mongols wanted to terminate whole nation. They divide into two! One went down into Georgia where we had relatives and down and others went to Belgium with Khan Kotyan and most of the noble family. But Belgium King betrayed Khan Kotyan and had him killed with all his family! Kypchaks didn't forget it and crushed the royal cavalary and burned cities. They then moved south-west. Batu Khan just waited for that! ;D The moment Belgium King betrayed Kypchaks he declared war to Belgium. But he couldn't catch the noble families of Kypchaks. He had to stop the chaise as his army streched too far and became fanurable to Slovaks who still stugled and the army was too tired. So some who wanted to catch Kypchaks continued the persude and Batu Khan using the exuse of the death of the Great Khan in Mongoliya tured the army back. From that period Naimans are the blood enemies of all Kypchaks who now lives abroud the Deshty-Kypchak. The night before the battle of Ayn Jalut mamluks sang a song about the tragic live a Khan Kotyan and the betrayal of naimans.
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Kypchak
Nov 22, 2005 21:37:22 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 22, 2005 21:37:22 GMT 3
I heard about that! Thats why we are now around the world wondering and looking for each others!
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Oct 1, 2005 14:24:59 GMT 3
I know that Kutb ad-din Muhammad's son Atsyz was one who started the glory of Khwarazm. he started the compain against nomads especialy against kipchaks. More over we can say he brought independence to Khwarazm and started the new strong goverment on east of muslim world.
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Kypchak
Sept 24, 2005 16:53:35 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Sept 24, 2005 16:53:35 GMT 3
Very Intresting!!! What kind of relationship was between Kypchaks and Horezmshah. Before the mongol invasion and after that! I think our Uzbek friends could help us, because there are a lots of kypchaks living in Uzbekistan.
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Kypchak
Sept 24, 2005 16:49:30 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Sept 24, 2005 16:49:30 GMT 3
Seems interesting because one source calls Kiev Sambatas . I always thought that it could be Khazars' influence meaning in hebrew and persian saturday. But I've never heard Kiev was named Bashtu. Where did you get that?[/quote]
Sorry I read it from one historical web site but after close look found that information has no profe nor evidence. I will contact with my friends from Kyrgizstan and check it with them.
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Kypchak
Apr 27, 2005 19:02:39 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Apr 27, 2005 19:02:39 GMT 3
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Kypchak
Apr 27, 2005 18:52:25 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Apr 27, 2005 18:52:25 GMT 3
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Apr 20, 2005 6:04:10 GMT 3
In Tsujshe historians comes to very similar tribe names that they addmit could me mentioning Kypchak. "Tsujshe are first listed among people conquered by Maotun in 201 BC" In 510 they appear as the members of Turik Kaganate and lived in Altai, Djailau. But they didn't make it to the 10 Arrows of Kaganate and were not recognized therefore they didn't get the autonomy. Kipchaks and Enisei Kirgizes were neighbors for 800 years in Upper Ob and Western Sayans. After the collapse of Turik Kaganate. Kipchaks move to Upper Irtysh and E. Kazakhstan steppes under pressure from China and Uygurs. Kirgizes joined the Khazars(669) and after they lost to Shambat and Asparukh they fleed to Bashtu(Kiev) while Kypchaks restored the Turik Kaganete (679) and renamed it into "Kok Turik Kaganate". It was know that Kypchaks ruled the Kaganate. Later they mixed with Kangars.(692) In 9th century Kimek Kaganete was established until 1235. I don't understant one moment! It is known that Kypchaks fought with Kyrgizs for centuries. In 844 Kyrgiz lead to the collapse of Uigur Kaganate. How did the moved from top of the map to the bottom. (Kiev-Bishkek)?
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Apr 17, 2005 9:48:12 GMT 3
Thank for replying for this topic! Fewdays ago I was searching for some information on Kipchaks and any related subject. I noticed your forum and was suprised to find out such an intresting conversations on this forum. I said that Kypchak influenced the history and I mean it. The first note about kipchaks were found 300 AD I think so as Kipchaks splited from HUNS. In some information their were found 210 BC through some Chineese Notes. Now days we can find Kypchaks in Egypt, Irak, Iran, Georgia, Bolgaria, Russia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgizstan, Azerbaizhan, Kazakstan & China. In all this countries we can find books devoted to them, archaeological items, and notes in history books. More over in most of the nations kipchaks made historical changes.
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Kypchak
Apr 12, 2005 19:57:00 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on Apr 12, 2005 19:57:00 GMT 3
Can some one enlighten me on the topic about Kypchaks! Because it we look closer to them we will find a mass number of historical events linking Kypchaks world history! I recon that Kypchaks changed the couse of world history. Who disagree with me?
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 8:09:47 GMT 3
The simbol of Kimak's was dragon or snake. They belived and worship the river where dragon lives as they belive he is the ancestor of Kimaks. While Qipchaks (kipchaks, Cumans, Polovcy and so on) worship wolf or she-wolf(legend). She is the ancestor of Qipchaks. I think a lots turik tribes have same ancestor or animal.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 7:53:05 GMT 3
In Yuanshi the chineese source while naming the Qipchaks ruling family the general Hubulai Tutuha they say that Tutuha ancestors came from the tribe which lives close to mountain Andogan by the river Chzhelyanchuan north of Upin. Lead by the clan leader Uiliboli he went from Mongoliya and settled in new land which they named cincha (qipchak)and took the name of the place. Later they were known as Qipchak-Baiaut. Too confusing lets leave this it doesn't makes us even close to the ancestors of Qipchaks.
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