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Post by massaget on Dec 8, 2012 11:10:38 GMT 3
Baysongor : Thank you wise german guys that you teached us how to call our own ancestor, hungarians were certainly some kind of apes who just popped up from nothing in 896. The whole steppe knew Attila unless hungarians, absolutely believable.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 8, 2012 11:31:12 GMT 3
so are there other meanings of "ata" in old Turkic? There are usages of the root AT in Turkic dialects. AT: horse AT: throw AT~AD: name AT: to be taken from some place to another. AT: to dawn ATA~ETE: father, uncle, ancestor. ATI: (junior) nephew, grandson And there are some Proto-Turkic words: *ădaĺ : friend, companion, namesake *adɨ-r- : to seperate *Atɨŕ : watered field, boundary (island, land in the middle of water, land in the middle of an obstacle *ād- : conscious And I think another meaning of the word AT is "to die, be cremated and journey to upperword as if your life force was shoot like an arrow"
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 8, 2012 13:29:17 GMT 3
Hmm I don't know unfortunately But changes from front vowels to back vowels existed in Old Turkic too; for example the name of the Khazars, Qasar, actually derives from Käzär (which would be Gezer in modern Turkish) meaning "Wanderer". Similarly, the name Qazaq (Kazakh) also derives from the same root verb Käz- ("to wander"). Very interesting. Check Otto Maenchen-Helfen's book The World of the Huns. He has a detailed study on this issue of the Pope meeting with Attila.
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Post by Temüjin on Dec 8, 2012 14:25:14 GMT 3
Whether it is suffix or not is debatable, but the -a ending is there - it was just dropped in the later forms. This is a well attested change in the Iranian and Indo-Aryan languages during the transition from the ancient to the middle and new stages. For example: the ancient Iranian Mithra ("friend" - the god of contracts) becomes Mihr in Middle Persian and Mehr in modern Farsi (now meaning "friendship, love" and metaphorically - "sun", because Mithra was also a solar deity), while Sanskrit names like Rāma and Kumāra become Ram and Kumar in modern Hindi. Thus the Pashto kul (کول, "family") is actually an Indian loanword from Sanskrit kula (कुल) - "family, tribe, caste". Κοζουλου from the other hand is just Greek Genitive of the name which can be expected on a coin. As for the Chinese forms - they usually only approximate foreign names with the syllables available in the Chinese language. And mind that apart from the language changes through the ages all those are foreign renderings of the original Hunnic names, so they couldn't be always accurate. however, the suffix is specifically -ila, not -la nor -a. in the examples above, the 'l' belonged to the preceeding words while the 'a' was only the suffix. Do we have knowledge of the names of Goth generals in Atilla's army? yes. actually someone took the time and analyze the names on attila's court, and the result was that some names could be interpretet to be germanic, some can be interpretet to be turkic, a few can be both (!). but a lot cannot be explained by either turkic nor germanic roots. also, the two only words from hunnic language are slavic (maybe loanwords, maybe in fact they're loanwords FROM hunnic, we don't know). at the end of the day however, all those analyzes lead nowhere because there's no conclusive evidence for any single language. it is in german though: steppenkrieger.de/board2/sub/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=921&s=cb800de0dc013ac79209c1642e8408cc0bcc6df0
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Post by massaget on Dec 8, 2012 16:43:45 GMT 3
Just to expand on this a little more, apparently the Attila name was Ezzilo in Old High German. The initial a changed into an e by Germanic umlaut ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_umlaut#I-mutation_in_High_German), which is like vowel harmony, and High German consonant shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_consonant_shift#Phase_1) changed intervocalic -tt- into -zz- then -tz-. The final vowel was lost by Middle High German to get Etzel. Hungarians must have adopted the name as Etele before Middle High German, which leads to other, quite interesting questions... Edit: As an aside, I noticed that my eldest son tends to say something like Änglish instead of Inglish. He got this pronunciation from his Hungarian grandmother. It makes my linguistic heart laugh. I bet your grandma is from north Hungary.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 9, 2012 10:35:56 GMT 3
Just a theory. Could the name of Atilla had been Asyalý meaning Asian ?
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Post by massaget on Dec 9, 2012 15:34:39 GMT 3
No. there are other hunnic names (hephtalite, uar-chun) wich proves otherwise. Like Totila. It can be a distorted form of course, but not as much as you suppose.
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Post by massaget on Dec 9, 2012 15:40:15 GMT 3
I wrote the possible solution for this hungarian - hun matter in the hungarian language topic before. We will never find the connection if we suppose that the magyars were spoken a finnougrian language. Its clear that the huns did not. THe magyars did not either, they got our language in the carpathian basin. This is the only way to understand sources like gesta hungarorum and hunnorum, thats the only way they makes sense.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 10, 2012 0:53:23 GMT 3
Just a theory. Could the name of Atilla had been Asyalý meaning Asian ? No.
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