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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 26, 2010 11:32:35 GMT 3
It's funny how she was portrayed in the 2004 movie "Alexander" as a very dark lady ;D Doesn't the name Arianism come from the name of it's founder, Arius?  |
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Post by Alanus on Apr 26, 2010 17:41:56 GMT 3
It's funny how she was portrayed in the 2004 movie "Alexander" as a very dark lady ;D Doesn't the name Arianism come from the name of it's founder, Arius? You're right!  Strange how the casting director of the movie chose what's-her-face, dark with a Mexican accent. But look at Alexander!-- a blonde Celt. And some of his generals spoke with a Scottish brogue. Then we had Persians looking like Saracens 900 years before they actually reached Sogdiana.  Right again. Arius was a Syrian presbyter and song-writer. He stuck to his guns at the synod of Nicene and was banished to the pucker-brush of Illyricum. His follower, Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, continued Arius' work and subsequent Eastern emperors were Arians (except Julian) until the rein of Theodosius who banished the heresy. Arian evangelists then went into Scythia Major and Pannonia where they converted the Goths and Alans. I don't know but the religion had a good point. But in the end the Orthodox and Catholics won. History is written by the winner.  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 27, 2010 18:27:19 GMT 3
You're right! Strange how the casting director of the movie chose what's-her-face, dark with a Mexican accent. But look at Alexander!-- a blonde Celt. And some of his generals spoke with a Scottish brogue. Then we had Persians looking like Saracens 900 years before they actually reached Sogdiana. LOL yes ;D ;D I have always found it funny how the ancient Greeks and Romans are usually depicted in movies as all or mostly blondes ;D Right again. Arius was a Syrian presbyter and song-writer. He stuck to his guns at the synod of Nicene and was banished to the pucker-brush of Illyricum. His follower, Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, continued Arius' work and subsequent Eastern emperors were Arians (except Julian) until the rein of Theodosius who banished the heresy. Arian evangelists then went into Scythia Major and Pannonia where they converted the Goths and Alans. I don't know but the religion had a good point. But in the end the Orthodox and Catholics won. So, does Arius' name come from the Arians or is it just a coincidence? History is written by the winner. Indeed. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Apr 27, 2010 18:41:10 GMT 3
Hehe... *must resist blonde jokes* O.O
Argh, better leave this thread before I crack one hehe
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 27, 2010 18:59:20 GMT 3
Hahahaha feel free ;D ;D
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Post by Alanus on Apr 27, 2010 21:18:50 GMT 3
So, does Arius' name come from the Arians or is it just a coincidence? The religious sect Arians came from the name of the presbyter Arius. But where did Arius' name come from? Probably from the huge cultural group we're actually discussing, in other words a spelling varient of "Aryan," the "i" replacing the "y." Look at Ptolomy's map. The huge area west of the Tigris is called Ariana, and it includes Parthia, Media, and maybe Assyria which then borders Syria, the last being the home of the presbyter. Then his name could easily be a later variation of "Aryus." But for narrowing things down, I would identify the ancient culture as "Aryans" (so politically incorrect :  and the Christian heretics as "Arians." I don't know. Am I right? |
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Post by Subu'atai on Apr 28, 2010 0:04:17 GMT 3
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Post by Alanus on Apr 28, 2010 0:22:44 GMT 3
Mickey Rourke, eh?
That's why I don't watch Hollywood movies, only those made in other countries, because the Hollywooders think we're all ignorant or stupid!!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 28, 2010 12:12:08 GMT 3
I see  HAHAHAHA ;D ;D ;D LOL as you wish ;D ;D I agree |
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Post by Alanus on May 8, 2010 19:22:48 GMT 3
I should modify that last statement. I do watch a few Hollywood movies. I think it was Sarmat who pointed out that the flick King Arthur was a resonable portrayal of Sarmatians. (I don't recall any blondes in the bunch). At least they got the steppe bow correct, and in two scenes Tristan is using a bow built by Csaba Grozer. What I disliked was Romans riding off to Ukraine to collect 12-year-old boys. Too young. The Sarmatian descendents of this "deal," if they ever existed (which I highly doubt), would have lived in Pannonia (Hungary) where they originally fought the Romans and lost. This was the group of 5,500 Iazyges sent into Britain by Marcus Aurelius.  |
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Post by sarmat on May 8, 2010 22:15:36 GMT 3
I, actually, don't understand what so strange in Alexander's being blong He is actually described as having fair hair and blue eyes in some sources. Besides, Ancient Greeks looked very different from the modern Greeks that in fact have only a limited direct connection to Ancient Greeks after mixing with many Mediterranean folks for over 2 milleniums. Moreover, Alexander was only one half Greek and half Macedonian. Macedonians are people of unknown origins who probably were related to Thracians and I don't think it would be strange if they have a considerable number of fair haired people among them. |
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Post by Alanus on May 9, 2010 21:07:48 GMT 3
Perhaps you're correct. But that's not the way they were depicted on Greek vases and paintings, which is all we have, physically and in color, to go on. In general the portraits show dark hair. Apart from that, I was critisizing the film Alexander for deliberately portraying the Iranians as "dark" and showing the Macedonians-- the good "Arian" guys-- as "light." The director went out of his way to show Darius looking like an Arab, and he chose an Afro-Latino to play Roxanne (right down to the Hispanic accent). To me, this did no justice to the Bactrians or any other Iranian peoples, who were the original inhabitants to call their greater homeland "Aria." The movie simply gave the audience stereotyped "dark Persian people" who all seemed to wear too much eye-shadow. All we have to do is look at photographs of today's Iranian people and discover red and blonde hair as well as blue eyes. I personally know two old-country Greek families, and I dated a Greek girl whose family opposed it because I wasn't Greek. By ancient tradition, Greeks (like the Jewish) do not marry outside of their culture. So I find it difficult to believe that the Greeks have been "watered down" by so many other Mediterranian peoples who just happened to be "dark." We see exactly the same bias in the Anabantis of Alexander, where he is critisized for not marrying a Macedonian woman, or at second best, maybe a Greek woman. Nothing changes, and it's now 2,300 years later. |
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Post by sarmat on May 10, 2010 4:52:21 GMT 3
Of course, there are Iranians with blue eyes, blond and red hair etc. But they are a very small minority among the guys who have this typical Middle Eastern outlook, yes, very closed to Arabs, BTW there are also blue eyed, blond Arabs as well. An average Iranian guy, Mr. Ahmadinejad, looks very similar to the Darius from the movie. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_16-17_October_2007.jpgThe same goes for Roxana, who was a Bactrian or Sogdian, most of whom, apparently, were dark. And regarding the Greeks, their culture is far more open than Jewish, those two can't even be compared at all. And it even doesn't matter what the Greeks wanted for themselves, the Greek heartland had been invaded and controled by other ethnicites who were dominating in the region at different times. So, I, believe, most of the Greeks from the republic of Greece are actually Slavs. Pontic and Mediterranean Greeks perhaps have more connection to Ancient Greeks but they are extremely mixed with Middle Easterners, Anatolian and Caucasian people. |
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Post by Alanus on May 10, 2010 19:58:09 GMT 3
I'll agree with some of that. Most Iranians are dark, but not all. As for Roxanne, yes she was either Bactrian or Sogdian. But she was not dark. Her actual name was Rokhshan-- and "rokhs" means "light." We see this also with the tribe Roxolani, the original name being Rokhsalani, the "light Alans."  |
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Post by Alanus on May 10, 2010 20:16:23 GMT 3
back to you, Sarmat Maybe we're going a little off-subject. I think the bottom line is that most real Arians were not blondes, but there were certain tribes that carried a blonde-blue-eyed gene, like that of Roxanne/Roxanna and a large number of the Alans. Remember Ammianus Marcellinus, an eyewitness who fought against the Alans-- "The Alani are tall and handsome, their hair inclines to blonde; by the ferocity of their glance they inspire dread, subdued though it is." (AM, XXXI, 2, 21) The same would go for the slightly earlier Massagetae, "... the Alani, once known as the Massagetae." (AM, XXXI, 2, 12) and "... they [the Alans] are Massagetae." (Cassius Dio, 69, 15) I guess there are exceptions. |
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) we have the "Arians," who were a heritic Christian sect until the end of the 6th century. Probably some of them were also blondes, especially since the Alans and Goths turned to that religion. 
Strange how the casting director of the movie chose what's-her-face, dark with a Mexican accent. But look at Alexander!-- a blonde Celt. And some of his generals spoke with a Scottish brogue. Then we had Persians looking like Saracens 900 years before they actually reached Sogdiana. 
and the Christian heretics as "Arians."
;D 
