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Post by Bor Chono on Feb 7, 2007 16:15:50 GMT 3
Halha Mongols have good relaionship with Buryats & Tsahar Mongols!
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Feb 8, 2007 6:50:27 GMT 3
Joining Manch was will of descendants of The Great Khaan. Are you talking about Ejei Khan (son of Ligdan), who surrendered to the Manchu and gave the great seal of the Yuan Emperor to the Manchu ruler Hong Taiji? Why do you call him a "descendant of The Great Khaan"? I thought he was a descendant of Dayan Khan, who was an orphan.
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Post by Bor Chono on Feb 8, 2007 16:19:26 GMT 3
Joining Manch was will of descendants of The Great Khaan. Are you talking about Ejei Khan (son of Ligdan), who surrendered to the Manchu and gave the great seal of the Yuan Emperor to the Manchu ruler Hong Taiji? Why do you call him a "descendant of The Great Khaan"? I thought he was a descendant of Dayan Khan, who was an orphan. I thought Ligden gave the seal(of the Great khaan) to no one. Where did U got the info that Dayan Khaan was an orphan?
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Feb 9, 2007 9:56:04 GMT 3
I thought Ligden gave the seal(of the Great khaan) to no one. Where did U got the info that Dayan Khaan was an orphan? I read it in the book, but I don't recall it right now. If I'm not mistaken, he was adopted by Mandagul khan's widow who later married Dayan.
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Post by Bor Chono on Feb 11, 2007 14:41:38 GMT 3
Well..yes Manduhai The Wise Queen married him. Bat-Munkh Dayan Khaan is son of Bayan-Munkh Jonon. Bayan-Munkh is younger brother of Mandul Khaan. Bat-Munkh Khaan significant cuz he ruled longest almost 41 years so in his name a title "Dayan" is added. Word "Dayan" is like "Noyan" means "significant","whole","fully"...etc
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Post by nisse on May 29, 2007 21:58:27 GMT 3
is the oirat a mongol tribe
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 31, 2007 0:06:37 GMT 3
They were and are a Mongol people, separate from the original group of tribes called Mongol before the 13th century. They were relatives of the ancient Mongol people (the term Mongol is today used for the original Mongol people as well as all the other Mongol-speaking peoples like the Khitans, Oyirat, Buriyat, etc) and they were speaking a Mongolian dialect.
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Post by nisse on Jun 3, 2007 2:28:10 GMT 3
aha, thanks for the info
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 9, 2007 21:57:47 GMT 3
what was the homeland of Oirats and what was the capital of the Oirat Khanate? I finally found out, the capital of the Oirat Khanate was Ili/Khulja in the Ili valley in Dzungaria...
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Post by Subu'atai on May 27, 2008 20:48:15 GMT 3
Oh how I wish now that I did not find this thread...
Agreed I respected Bor Chono, but I don't see much justice done here.
With such comments like that how are you a patriot yourself? You are fueling the fires of hatred that not just exterminated my people and dispersed us all around the world - but weakened your people by joining the Qing.
Look at those you allied yourself with, your allies became Chinese, and with it - all the problems of south Mongolia at present. You joined hujaa!
As much as I have read and enlightened myself of how glorious we were by your side under the leadership of the Great Khaan. I remain a realist - blood does not make a person. And joining Manchu? You joined hujaa!
If every Mongol believes as you do - then we'll always be living in the past. You want that for our people?!
If you allied with us, sure the Tsahars may have had to be fought but our people could have been united again. Look at the Tsahars now - you still think you made the right decision?
Manchu is not nomad, Manchu does not even exist now, Manchu is hujaa.
Now to exclude us? Is this the type of attitude you hold in regards to Oirats?
We both have blood on our hands, but I want a re-united and strong Mongolia just like any other Halh, Buryat or Tsahar
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Post by Temüjin on May 27, 2008 21:33:03 GMT 3
this was a difficult period and its hard to say who was right & wrong. Oirats were not ruled by the Golden Family so they were illegitimate to rule the Steppe, also Oirats invaded the Kazakh lands and killed many of them. Oirats made too many enemies on the Steppe themselves, why are you surprised Khalkhas rather joined with Manchus than Oirats? even Manchu rulers married princesses from the Golden Family, same like Temür did before them. Manchus may be Chinese today but they were not back then.
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Post by Subu'atai on May 28, 2008 11:19:10 GMT 3
Many of the wars waged I don't agree with to this day, nor how we waged it, nor do I understand many things - the one thing I do believe strongly is that we would not have broken away for no reason. Bor Chono makes it seem we're just a rebellious bunch.
Many Halhs, Buryats, and Tsahars I've met agree with me that not one side made the "right" decision. That's why I say we both have blood on our hands. It was merely 300 years ago, yes I know the Manchus were not hujaa back then, but they were not Mongol either. This war costed us dearly on both sides, allowing foreign powers to lay their claim on the steppes.
Yes I do admire today's Halhs as Mongolia is independent today, patriotic to maintain our culture, history and traditions despite so much adversity. Our history is rich and exists to teach us - it should make us ALL proud, not one tribe over the other.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 12, 2008 15:08:23 GMT 3
For Chinese Manchu ppl were one of northern Barbarian. In time they lost their lang, script....blood and became "Hujaa"="Chinese". Yes... The Dragon swallowed them all. But never forget that a nomad ppl named "Zurchin"="Manj" once showed what is NOMADIC RIDE!
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Post by Subu'atai on Jun 12, 2008 15:41:12 GMT 3
They BECAME hujaa yes but during that time in history they were already showing signs of sinification, as well as their loyalties were to their own cause and still somewhat foreign to the cause of the steppes. Cebdenjab was the Halha general responsible for the slaughter of the Oirats. What I don't understand is why extermination? Why not subjication at the least.
Did Chingghis exterminate tribes along the way westward? Our lands became lands for CHINA, now Mongolia and Kazakstan don't even share clear borders, and both Dzungar/Uyghur lands are under dominion of China.
Now Kalmyks are all the way in the Caucasus, Oirats are dispersed everywhere to every corner of the world. Even the Mongolian government now wont accept Oirats born elsewhere into Mongolia - and that includes me. Everything that I can offer Mongolia is rejected, and Enkhbayar is still running his corrupt little government.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 13, 2008 6:26:54 GMT 3
Yellow sect Buddhism won with help of Djungars. Then the yellow sect Buddhist Halha Mongols used extermination. Cuz in Yellow sect Buddhism those who burned Temple must be exterminated like heretics. If Galdan did not burn so many Zanabazar`s temples who knows...
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