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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 26, 2006 15:45:59 GMT 3
Does anyone have a list of all the Oghuric peoples and if possible, the names of their tribes? Like the Kutrigurs, Utrigurs, Onogurs, etc?
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Post by balamir on Nov 19, 2006 19:25:47 GMT 3
ý think ý saw it on "An Ýntroduction to History of Turkic Peoples",ý will write if ý am right.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 19, 2006 23:02:02 GMT 3
Yes, he has a chapter on them. Maybe I can a summary using his and Ý. Kafesoðlu'a book but currently I don't have time for that  |
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Post by Asparuh on Feb 25, 2009 18:36:33 GMT 3
Hello,
Well Ihsan I know about the Oghurs same as you know.
That the tribes Kutrigurs,Onoghurs and Utighurs were part of the Bulgarian khanate in 6 century.
Try too look in wikipedia about this matter.
Bye.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 25, 2009 22:04:40 GMT 3
Ah I actually got enough info about them but just forgot about this old thread, so I didn't modify it ;D
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Post by Asparuh on Dec 16, 2009 3:32:03 GMT 3
An Image of Oghur. Attachments:
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 16, 2009 19:59:11 GMT 3
That's actually a Mongol.
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Post by Asparuh on Dec 21, 2009 20:20:31 GMT 3
Ok  |
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 11, 2012 19:50:42 GMT 3
We should revive this thread.
The Onoghurs were a Turkic people. The name came to be applied later to Magyars. In the Russian Primary Chronicles, the White Ughors is supposed to refer to Magyars.
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 11, 2012 19:58:01 GMT 3
Check this link out: www.iub.edu/~cahist/Readings/2011Spring/Golden_Peoples%20of%20the%20South%20Russian%20Steppes.doc It's a document written by Peter B. Golden on Peoples of the Southern Russian Steppes. "Sometime about A.D. 463 a series of nomadic migrations was set off in Inner Asia. A very brief account of this is preserved in the fragments of Priskos Rhetor, the Byzantine ambassador to Attila. According to him the Saraghurs, Oghurs and Onoghurs were driven to the Pontic steppe, from whence they then sent ambassadors to Constantinople, by the Sabirs. The latter, in turn, had been forced from their homeland by the Avars." |
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 11, 2012 20:11:27 GMT 3
Rona-Tas has the following for the names of Oghur tribes: - Saraghur or Sharaghur (Sara Oghur or Shara Oghur, Yellow Oghur)
- Onoghur (On Oghur, Ten Oghur)
- Khuturghur (Khutur Oghur, Khutur being r-Turkic variant for Tokhuz, Nine Oghur)
- Uturghur (Utur Oghur, Utur being r-Turkic for Otuz, Thirty Oghur)
There's also later these terms for Bulghars: - Theophanes used Unnoghundur-Bulghar
- Porphyrogenitus used Bulghar and Onoghundur
- Armenians used Olhontor Bulkar and later Vlendur Bulkar
- Hudud al-alam has Vunundur
- Masudi has Wulundur
- Khazar khaghan Joseph has Vununtur
(These forms supposedly explain the Hungarian name Nandur/Nandor) The transformation of Onoghur to Onoghundur always fascinated me. I've never seen an explanation for it. |
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Post by Ardavarz on Apr 12, 2012 3:48:34 GMT 3
Long ago I was present at a lecture of Omeljan Pritsak who suggested that the names "Hungar" and "Bulgar" have been derived from Onoghun and Belghun meaning "Ten Huns" and "Five Huns" respectively. Still, it didn't become clear how -ghun has been transformed into -ghur and then - gar.
"Onoghundur/Unnogundur" has been puzzled me too. It is obviously a compound word, but is the first component on ("ten") or ono/unno ("Hun")? And the second - undur or gundur? The former resembles Mongolian öndür/Buryat ündür - "high". Also in "Jagfar Tarihy" is mentioned the word undur - "army, cavalry" (from Turkic yund - "horse").
And then there is this bewildering similarity between "Oghur" and "Uighur". They may be not related, but nontheless there is an amazing likeness between the name of their tribal unions: Onogur vs. On-Uighur, Kuturgur (Tokur-Oghur) vs. Toquz-Uighur, Saragur vs. Sarï-Uighur (even though the latter are actually different people - the Yugurs).
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 12, 2012 8:37:42 GMT 3
Onoghundur reminds me of On Ok. I don't know enough about how these names were recorded in the sources to speculate too much on that. A comparison of "Onoghun" and "Onoghur" shows up in one of my books where the -n and the -r at the end supposedly is some Turkic collective suffix. No idea of what -dur would be.
I think the similarities with Toquz Uighur and On Uighur are not coincidental but cultural.
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Post by massaget on Apr 12, 2012 13:33:41 GMT 3
hjernespiser : many considers -dur as a diminative sign. Onogurs - the onoghur tribe, onogundur - part of the onogurs (little onoghurs)
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Post by ancalimon on Apr 12, 2012 16:24:14 GMT 3
ogUR: We are the OÐ ~ OQ
ogUZ: We are the OÐ ~ OQ
oqUT: We are the OÐ ~ OQ
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