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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 22, 2006 8:04:00 GMT 3
Well as it was mention before we do have two terms. Baltic states and Baltic nation.
In Baltic states I think we have Estonia, Latvia and Lituania.
In Baltic nation Poland, Lituania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ceska and Slovenia.
Who shall we spaek about?
People who don't recognize other races and consider themselfs as a high blood or the nation who went through fire and water!
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 22, 2006 8:38:28 GMT 3
In the times of titans USSR did their best to revenge same as Germany. I belive what they did was justified from their points of view. If bolshiviks didn't invaded Central Asia from so named sultans, presidents we would be shifted back to 17th century. What was after was a disaster done by people who did not support the vizion of nation but only of themselves. Within a year or so of Soviet takeover, according to various estimates, somewhere between 11.000 and 60.000 Estonians were killed, deported or fled: 45.000 Lithuanians sufefred the same fate: and in Latvia the figure was about 35.000. Many went in mass deportations to Siberia beginning on 14 June 1941. The Red Army reconquered The Baltic Countries except Courland (which was still in German hands when Germany sureendered in May 1945), by the end of 1944. Many cities were badly damaged in fighting between the advancing Soviet forces and Nazi Occupiers/ Between 1944 and 1952, with Stalin's Soviet Rule firmly established, agriculture was collectivised. As many as 60.000 Estonian, 175.000 Latvian and 250.000 Lithuanians were killed or deported between 1945 and 1949, many of them in March 1949 during the collectivisation. Thousands of people- known as forest brothers- took to the wood rather than live under Soviet Rule... I ask you, with all my respect, do you still believe that these were justified?  As for your second assumption, If it had not been under Soviet Rule, under tehir own rulers, the Central Asian republic would have developed, let alone going back to 17.century. I met many people friom centytral asian republics, and these observations of mine are about the Soviet legacy on them: 1- They had been de-musliminized under the atheistic Soviet rule. Many call them muslims, but even dont know the pillars of islam. 2- They all speak Russian peferctly, meaning that, the steppes have already been a part of Rusian mentality. I think this is a clear indication of the Soviet imperialism to a large decree. After Stalin, The Soviet Union turned out to be another Russian Empire with a different name  It was a hard times. A week ago a group of Chechen wrote a letter to President Putin asking him and the goverment to admit that during Soviet rein their nation fell under the genocide. Fine. Well Kazakh can also plead for genocide from Soviet rein. More than 2 million Kazakh died during 1935 to 1941. But we don't do it. Because it was not their fault. 10 times more russian died during that period. Died away from their homes and families or even worse with their families. Their fault was the leaders of the state. Such as Eosif Stalin who as a Georgian. We can unleash all our anger on them and their children. We can whipe out 4, 661, 473 Georgian thats the population of Georgia for the crimes done by Eosif Stalin. But thats not the good thing to do. We can look further and find his advisors who were jews. What do you think about unleashing the genoside on poor jews. Its about 6, 352, 117 people live in Israel. That is also not the answere. What happened in the past is in the past. We must never forget it and not allow it happen in the future. |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 22, 2006 9:06:01 GMT 3
Did you thought what would have happend if Germans would win the war! Its not good to say if in history but lets consider it. I would not think of good outcome for my nation nor for neighbouring nations. Its only scam would say that we would have been drinking german beer and eat german food. I would think we would have been drinking our pee and eating dogs. People were fighting for their freedom and for their families. Do you know what made common Soviet soldeir mad. Its passing through Russia then Ukrain, Belarusia were people were dying from hunger and cold, eating their children and dogs. Seeing all this horrors come to Baltic states and Germany were people didn't know what was hunger and their children didn't know what it felt like dying from cold and live not knowing will you wake up tomorrow. That made common people mad with rage and pain. Soviet union won the war with blood. People payed high price for that. Approximatly 22 million people died on Soviet side to gain the victory. For all of them it was justified. If it was not for the high commanders Baltic states and Germany payed small price for what they did.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Nov 22, 2006 11:51:52 GMT 3
Well as it was mention before we do have two terms. Baltic states and Baltic nation. In Baltic states I think we have Estonia, Latvia and Lituania. In Baltic nation Poland, Lituania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ceska and Slovenia. Who shall we spaek about? People who don't recognize other races and consider themselfs as a high blood or the nation who went through fire and water! Czech, Russia, Poland and especially Slovenia cannot be Baltic nations anyway. Still explain why you consider one Finnish tribe to Baltic, but exclude others...  |
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Post by thediplomat on Nov 22, 2006 12:39:58 GMT 3
Within a year or so of Soviet takeover, according to various estimates, somewhere between 11.000 and 60.000 Estonians were killed, deported or fled: 45.000 Lithuanians sufefred the same fate: and in Latvia the figure was about 35.000. Many went in mass deportations to Siberia beginning on 14 June 1941. The Red Army reconquered The Baltic Countries except Courland (which was still in German hands when Germany sureendered in May 1945), by the end of 1944. Many cities were badly damaged in fighting between the advancing Soviet forces and Nazi Occupiers/ Between 1944 and 1952, with Stalin's Soviet Rule firmly established, agriculture was collectivised. As many as 60.000 Estonian, 175.000 Latvian and 250.000 Lithuanians were killed or deported between 1945 and 1949, many of them in March 1949 during the collectivisation. Thousands of people- known as forest brothers- took to the wood rather than live under Soviet Rule... I ask you, with all my respect, do you still believe that these were justified? As for your second assumption, If it had not been under Soviet Rule, under tehir own rulers, the Central Asian republic would have developed, let alone going back to 17.century. I met many people friom centytral asian republics, and these observations of mine are about the Soviet legacy on them: 1- They had been de-musliminized under the atheistic Soviet rule. Many call them muslims, but even dont know the pillars of islam. 2- They all speak Russian peferctly, meaning that, the steppes have already been a part of Rusian mentality. I think this is a clear indication of the Soviet imperialism to a large decree. After Stalin, The Soviet Union turned out to be another Russian Empire with a different name It was a hard times. A week ago a group of Chechen wrote a letter to President Putin asking him and the goverment to admit that during Soviet rein their nation fell under the genocide. Fine. Well Kazakh can also plead for genocide from Soviet rein. More than 2 million Kazakh died during 1935 to 1941. But we don't do it. Because it was not their fault. 10 times more russian died during that period. Died away from their homes and families or even worse with their families. Their fault was the leaders of the state. Such as Eosif Stalin who as a Georgian. We can unleash all our anger on them and their children. We can whipe out 4, 661, 473 Georgian thats the population of Georgia for the crimes done by Eosif Stalin. But thats not the good thing to do. We can look further and find his advisors who were jews. What do you think about unleashing the genoside on poor jews. Its about 6, 352, 117 people live in Israel. That is also not the answere. What happened in the past is in the past. We must never forget it and not allow it happen in the future. Dude, saying it was hard times is a very cliche remark indeed. Dont get me wrong in the meantime! By no means I can be anti-Russian or anti-Soviet... I opened this thread to learn what the rest of the forum think of the invasion of The Baltic States. Peace!  |
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Post by thediplomat on Nov 22, 2006 12:43:06 GMT 3
Well as it was mention before we do have two terms. Baltic states and Baltic nation. In Baltic states I think we have Estonia, Latvia and Lituania. In Baltic nation Poland, Lituania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ceska and Slovenia. Who shall we spaek about? People who don't recognize other races and consider themselfs as a high blood or the nation who went through fire and water! Czech, Russia, Poland and especially Slovenia cannot be Baltic nations anyway. Still explain why you consider one Finnish tribe to Baltic, but exclude others... Exactly. Czech and Poles are western Slavic, wheras Russians are eastern slavic nations... The reason why Estonia is included in The Baltic term,while The Finland is not obviously has something to do with geography. And also it was a German chronicer who coined the term Baltic in either 11. or 12.century. I think he would agree with us today  |
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Nov 22, 2006 17:46:29 GMT 3
Well, you don't have to call us Baltics, but just don't call us to scandinavians. |
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 22, 2006 22:55:46 GMT 3
Batlic in a national sense wouldn't include estonia anyways, the three major Baltic people were the Prussians, Lithuanians and Latgallians/Livonians. Estonians as we all know are Fino-Ugrians the geographical term baltic refers to countries that were part of the medieval knights orders. BTW Nomad, i agree with what you said. |
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Nov 23, 2006 2:35:54 GMT 3
Batlic in a national sense wouldn't include estonia anyways, the three major Baltic people were the Prussians, Lithuanians and Latgallians/Livonians. Estonians as we all know are Fino-Ugrians the geographical term baltic refers to countries that were part of the medieval knights orders. BTW Nomad, i agree with what you said. Well, I agree with you about Baltic-issue. But if we talk about WWII: Russians attacked firstly against Finns and before that they were had time stolen our historical lands. |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 24, 2006 6:31:28 GMT 3
About the Finn_Russian war. Who started the war and who won the war?! For Russian it was a first time to show-off to the rest of the world that Russian army was strong. During that war russian used KV-1 and KV-2 tanks. We can rank them as heavy tanks. I am not aware what did bolshiviks used as propaganda to wage a war on Finns. After the Finn war 80% of all officers fell under represion.
My theory:
In power at that time was Stalin and his advisors from NKVD such as Beriya. New policy of the leader could have turned into civil war and army was not going to backup the Goverment as Army gave the outh to the nation not to the goverment and still remembered why did they overthrow the Russian emperor. I belive that Stalin and advisors knew about the impossibility to over-run the Finn defence and all it needed is a fall of Red Army to clean the path from people who could oppose them. It was like smaking kitties head on a wall and to watch what will crack first the kitties heads or the wall made of stones. Their plan worked perfectly.
I would gladly to hear other theories!
(BTW In Turkey! Army has a strong political power. And if fanatics and other scums get their hand on politics and will win the election with ambitions that could distroy the nation last word is always after the ARMY)
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Nov 24, 2006 15:34:54 GMT 3
If that war would end other way, Himmler promised to all areas north of Moscow under Finnish control.
It would be very bad for russians, but Finns would safe native people (Who has most rights to that country).
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 24, 2006 23:39:25 GMT 3
what do you mean? Molotov-Ribbentrop pact gave away Finland to Soviet sphere of influence when europe was divided between Nazis and Communists. it was only because of this pact that Russians invaded Finland, so the 3. Reich is to blame. and this is also theme of this topic, i mean invasion of eastern eruopean countries by Soviet Union fater 1939.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Nov 25, 2006 0:15:15 GMT 3
what do you mean? Molotov-Ribbentrop pact gave away Finland to Soviet sphere of influence when europe was divided between Nazis and Communists. it was only because of this pact that Russians invaded Finland, so the 3. Reich is to blame. and this is also theme of this topic, i mean invasion of eastern eruopean countries by Soviet Union fater 1939. Yes, it is fact that Hitler sold us to Stalin 1939. But in WWII (Finland joined to Axis 1941) 3. reich's opinions were different concerning Finland. |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 28, 2006 10:52:10 GMT 3
What is happening today in Baltic States?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 28, 2006 19:30:04 GMT 3
The NATO Summit is held in Rîga-Latvia ;D
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