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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 14, 2006 10:04:42 GMT 3
While reading some works on the White Huns as helping a friend in his schoolwork, I found several interesting theories about what happened to them after the destruction of their state. Some claim that the Qalach Turks of Iran and Afghanistan are their descendents, whereas some claim that the Rajputs of Northern India are of White Hun origin. Some even claim that the idol-worshipper peoples of the mountainous borderland between Afghanistan and Pakistan are their descendents.
What do you think?
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 14, 2006 22:07:09 GMT 3
I also recently heard about the Rajput theory, and Im pretty doubtfull about it, however i'm not sure about the exact claim and the relations it draws. I have become very interested in Indian history lately and i will try to bring light into the matter. one thing is interesting about the Rajputs, their origins are indeed obscure and they were good horsemen.
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Post by kokturk on Nov 14, 2006 23:14:03 GMT 3
Do we know anything about the language of White Huns?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 15, 2006 2:16:37 GMT 3
We only have a few remnants from other sources, like Khaqan, Tigin, Khan and the like, plus a few obscure names like Toraman, Akhshunwâr, etc...
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Post by Atabeg on Nov 15, 2006 12:59:56 GMT 3
hmm toraman is alast name in turkish like ibrahim toraman turkish football player
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Post by tengrikut on Nov 15, 2006 20:05:31 GMT 3
We only have a few remnants from other sources, like Khaqan, Tigin, Khan and the like, plus a few obscure names like Toraman, Akhshunwâr, etc... +eftel or was eftel another name for akhsuwar? |
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Post by kokturk on Nov 15, 2006 20:14:04 GMT 3
We only have a few remnants from other sources, like Khaqan, Tigin, Khan and the like, plus a few obscure names like Toraman, Akhshunwâr, etc... So, they were Turkic. And the Qalach theory seems more logical. And the name of Qalach supports this theory, because it means resister, or inhabitant. The White Huns were older than other Turkic people in Iran and Afghanistan. Maybe the later ones -Turcomans and so on- gave the name Qalach to them because of this. |
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Post by tengrikut on Nov 15, 2006 20:21:17 GMT 3
in oghuz khan myth, kalach name was gaven to the son of the orum khan. wasnt orum khan roman? but oghuz khan fought to him in the west, so it is suitable for them  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 16, 2006 1:31:55 GMT 3
Yes, the name Toraman looks Turkic but I can not get a meaning from it. Maybe we know the name in an inaccurate form, who knows? It is Toramana in Sanskrit.
There are two theories about this. Some think Ephtal was another name of Akhshunwâr but some think it was the name of the dynasty ruling the White Huns.
We can not decide ethnic origins from a few titles and names because steppe peoples used names and titles from many different languages (Turkic, Mongolic, Tungus, Iranic, Chinese, Tokharian, Sanskrit, etc). However, Chinese travelers like Song Yun who visited the White Huns in Afghanistan describe them as the relatives or descendents of the Xiongnu whereas most of the names used for the White Huns include or are related with the name Khun. If they were the descendents of the Xiongnu (which is highly impossible as I think), then we can say that the White Huns were very highly probably Turkic.
However, some sources connect them with the Rourans, which has caused some scholars to think that they were of Mongolic stock. However, we do not clearly know that the White Huns were indeed a branch of two Rouran tribes, and I do not know whether those tribes shown as related with the White Huns were Mongolic or Turkic, because the Rouran Empire included many peoples.
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 17, 2006 0:33:22 GMT 3
that Eftel (Ephtal) looks strikingly similar to Etzel, the name used for Attila in German...i always wondered why we used a different name for Attila as the rest of the world and where this Etzel actually came from. what does Eftel mean? if it is indeed meant as the dynasty it could be a hint that the ruling dynasty of the Black (european) Huns and the White Huns were the same, it would also be an explanation why both tribes were called Huns despite not being directly related.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 17, 2006 1:54:36 GMT 3
I also wonder whether the name Abdal in Turkish (a group of Yörüks in Turkey, mostly 'Alevîs) is related with Ephtal or not.
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 17, 2006 23:20:46 GMT 3
interesting, Abdali is the name of one of the Pashtun tribes living around Herat, Ahmed Shah Durrani, the "founder" of modern Afghanistan was from this tribe...it also coincides with the area controlled by the White Huns.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 18, 2006 22:42:45 GMT 3
It is highly possible that those Afghân Abdalî are descendents of White Huns.
Is it possible that some Oghuz might have been their descendents?
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 18, 2006 23:25:54 GMT 3
don't know, Pashtun (Dari?) is an Indo-Iranian language...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 19, 2006 0:13:25 GMT 3
They might have been Iranified which is common among the Turko-Mongol peoples of Afghânistân (such as the Qalachs who are Turkic but they all now speak Iranian).
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