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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 5, 2012 1:01:35 GMT 3
So it was Öküz actually. Interesting...
I still think it was hardly related to the name of Oxus River though. "Aksu" seems to me like more probable guess.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 5, 2012 13:17:20 GMT 3
Well it might have been Ögüz too because the Arabic script used by Mahmud of Kashghar does not differentiate g and k.
But "water" in Old Turkic was Sub (Suy in a few inscriptions) and Suw (in Uyghur); it only became Su in the Oghuz dialect.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 5, 2012 18:55:31 GMT 3
Well it might have been Ögüz too because the Arabic script used by Mahmud of Kashghar does not differentiate g and k. But "water" in Old Turkic was Sub ( Suy in a few inscriptions) and Suw (in Uyghur); it only became Su in the Oghuz dialect. But wasn't the B a voiceless B sound? For example as in Tocharian. (this reminds me. The word "su" most probably is the sound people make when they are drinking water from their palm)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 6, 2012 13:31:27 GMT 3
But wasn't the B a voiceless B sound? For example as in Tocharian. (this reminds me. The word "su" most probably is the sound people make when they are drinking water from their palm) In the beginning it doesn't seem to be a voiceless B. However, the short inscription found on a brick in Ulaanbaatar shows us that during the Gokturk period, a dialectical form Suy appeared. In the Uyghur documents we see Suw, and in Oghuz the final consonant was just dropped. In modern Turkic languages, the word is usually Suw, Suu, etc.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 6, 2012 22:16:39 GMT 3
But wasn't the B a voiceless B sound? For example as in Tocharian. (this reminds me. The word "su" most probably is the sound people make when they are drinking water from their palm) In the beginning it doesn't seem to be a voiceless B. However, the short inscription found on a brick in Ulaanbaatar shows us that during the Gokturk period, a dialectical form Suy appeared. In the Uyghur documents we see Suw, and in Oghuz the final consonant was just dropped. In modern Turkic languages, the word is usually Suw, Suu, etc. By voiceless I mean that all the "B" sound accomplished in the word "sub" was to sharply cut the "u" sound by closing the lips and not a "bu" sound with a voiceless u.
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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 7, 2012 0:14:09 GMT 3
But wasn't the B a voiceless B sound? For example as in Tocharian. (this reminds me. The word "su" most probably is the sound people make when they are drinking water from their palm) In the beginning it doesn't seem to be a voiceless B. However, the short inscription found on a brick in Ulaanbaatar shows us that during the Gokturk period, a dialectical form Suy appeared. In the Uyghur documents we see Suw, and in Oghuz the final consonant was just dropped. In modern Turkic languages, the word is usually Suw, Suu, etc. Interesting. "Suy" sounds much like the Chinese word for "water" (水 shuǐ) - it may be Chinese influence or curious coincidence (if both are onomatopoetic words as Ancalimon suggests).
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 7, 2012 12:04:57 GMT 3
Probably just a coincidence I guess.
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Post by Yazig on Jan 8, 2013 23:50:48 GMT 3
I had a conversation with my teacher (she's a PhD. in archaeology and specializes in the Halstatt period). Hallstat period is approximately 800-450 BC. Not 750 as was suggested earlier. I asked her about the cultural origins of the Scythians. She mentioned an excavation conducted by Prof. Hermann Parzinger. He excavated several Scythian kurgans in Siberia. I don't exactly where ( I will post it next time ) but archaeologically it looks like that the Scythian material culture first occured in Siberia and their mettalurgy actually predates that of the Greek colonies at the Pontic sea. So maybe the right way to find their roots is to not only use written sources but also archaeological artifacts which are in many cases more useful.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 9, 2013 18:14:21 GMT 3
Well it is a known fact, already mentioned by Herodotos, that the Scythians came to the Pontic-Caspian steppes from the east.
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Post by Yazig on Jan 14, 2013 18:29:21 GMT 3
Check this out. Arzhan and Arzhan II are kurgans in Tuva. Well actually there are hundreds of them in that region. However Gryaznov established a chronology ( 9th - 8th BC) from the excavation of Arzhan. Hermann Parzinger excavated Arzhan II. Here are the results in english. www.dainst.org/en/project/russian-federation-tuva-arzhan?ft=allArdavarz mentioned in this or in another topic Herodotos' reports about several Scythian languages and different tribes of the Scythians. If this is true than who were the original Scythians? Where did they come from? When were these languages added to their structure? My point in the first post was that the Scythians may not just have Iranic or Turkic origins. They may be something completely different.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 15, 2013 20:04:45 GMT 3
Here is what Herodotos wrote about that language issue: "Now as far as the land of these bald men, we have full knowledge of the country and the nations on the near side of them; for some of the Scythians make their way to them, from whom it is easy to get knowledge, and from some of the Greeks, too, from the Borysthenes port and the other ports of Pontus; such Scythians as visit them transact their business with seven interpreters and in seven languages." www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D4%3Achapter%3D24%3Asection%3D1Uhm so actually it's not the Scythians themselves that speak seven different languages, but the Scythians use those when talking with their neighbors. Herodotos actually gives examples from the "Scythian language", some of which look Iranic and some of which look Turkic.
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Post by mmoigold2 on Jan 16, 2013 6:25:59 GMT 3
A good topic need to work together to maintain.
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Post by Turan on Nov 6, 2015 12:15:22 GMT 3
In the book and works of Nihal Atsiz he claims that the Scythian and Saka people were Turk/Turkic. He had a few professor names in the book which had proof of connections such as names,culture and more.
I will re-open the book and post what he has written when I got time and when im home.
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nomadsoul
Är
bearer of the Afanasevo culture
Posts: 27
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Post by nomadsoul on Apr 29, 2016 20:48:30 GMT 3
Scythian-Sacae/Sarmatian were Proto-Slavic tribes became Iranified
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 30, 2016 14:04:19 GMT 3
The Slavic origin theory for the Scythians is outdated and no one today supports this theory.
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