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Post by Druzhina on Feb 3, 2017 7:11:22 GMT 3
the name Attila is clearly gothic. 'atta' in the Gothic language also had the meaning of father, which is however not present in other Germanic languages. the real question is, what are the implications of that? anyways, does anyone actually know which languages have the word at(t)a for father? Some examples for "father" from various languages: Latin: pater German: vater Hindi: पिता pita Sanskrit: पितृ pitR Kyrgyz: ата Turkish: baba, but also: ata (ancestor, father, predecessor, forerunner, progenitor, forefather) Druzhina Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 3, 2017 12:06:13 GMT 3
anyways, does anyone actually know which languages have the word at(t)a for father? Various Old Turkic dialects.
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 3, 2017 16:05:03 GMT 3
according to Azadan Januspar's link, 'atta' also had the meaning of father in Indo-European languages, so i'm wondering which ones exactly.
Attila's name might not be a big deal. Temüjin was named after a captured Tatar prisoner, so the same might have happened in case of Attila. or they got immersed in the culture of their Germanic subjects quickly. the Seljuq dynasty had names of three different cultures within three generations (Jewish-Khazar, shamanistic Oghuz Turkic and Islamic-Persian). there are many more examples of this, as steppe people generally quickly adapted to new cultures. so it's entirely possible Attila's name has no further implications and doesn't give us any idea of his ethnic roots.
according to Hyun Jin Kim, the Goths had a non-Germanic ruling elite. it's entirely possible that we have a similar case as with the Danube Bulghars in that a Turkic ruling elite of steppe origin gets assimilated into their Germanic subjects. but even then, the theory above would apply.
the only other option is that the -ila suffix is just a coincidence and has nothing to do with the Germanic Goths. the first (known) ruler of the White Huns was Khingila, which also has the -ila ending but obviously had no connection to (Germanic) Goths. Mihirakula was also White Hun ruler with a similar name suffix. the -ila suffix was then common to the Hunnic language and the Goths might or might not have adopted it. in this scenario, the Gothic rulign elite was definitely Hunnic, as per Hyun Jin Kim. though from the POV of Germanic languages, the -ila suffix is grammatically fully consistent with other (Southern) Germanic languages, such as Swabian -le, Bavarian -(e)l and Swiss-German -li.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 3, 2017 21:56:20 GMT 3
Well we know that the Hunnic dynasty was already using some Germanic names such as Rua/Rugila and Bleda before the reign of Attila.
Hyun Jin Kim's ideas are also very interesting.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 4, 2017 23:43:50 GMT 3
I also remember reading somewhere (forgot where) that Mihirakula might have derived from Old Turkic Mih(i)r Qulï meaning "Slave/Servant of Mithra", a formula similar to Arabic 'Abdallah ("Servant of God"), whose modern Turkish translation survives as the surname Tanrıkulu.
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Post by chilhoe on Dec 7, 2017 6:44:48 GMT 3
Kazakhs have a legend about the origin of SAKAs. Yehowa an asian female married wit Herculese and bore 3 sons. They are first SAKAs.According to this legend, SAKA is a mixed breed of 2 races.
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Post by atila1194 on Mar 17, 2018 9:39:20 GMT 3
hi to all in this 10 years I finde a post in ultra iranist nationalist website this website has antiturkist lines in most of its pages its most in persian in this web site they about saka peoples is said that scythians are ancestors of Gokturks and Huns however they also said thet ther Turks are not Turkic peoples acording to this website Huns and Gokturks were iranian peoples that their language is changed by altay peoples! they also presented a link to an english book`s page sorry for bad english look at this pdf book: books.google.com/books?id=8-OilJCX1moC&pg=PA143&dq=It+seems+hard+to+avoid+the+conclusion+that+the,+per+se,+had+strong+connections+with+%E2%80%94+if+not+ultimate+origins+in+%E2%80%94+Irano-Tocharian+east+Turkistan&hl=en&ei=nn60TbL3EOru0gHtwLVR&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=It%20seems%20hard%20to%20avoid%20the%20conclusion%20that%20the%2C%20per%20se%2C%20had%20strong%20connections%20with%20%E2%80%94%20if%20not%20ultimate%20origins%20in%20%E2%80%94%20Irano-Tocharian%20east%20Turkistan&f=false also look at the azargoshnasp site belongs to pan iranists azargoshnasp.net/Pasokhbehanirani/vaajeyehtork.htm
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Post by atila1194 on Mar 17, 2018 9:48:33 GMT 3
let speak about root of father and mother also daughter if you delete the suffix "ther" from end of this word you see they change to Arabic and Semitic fa > aba (father arabic) mo > umma (mother) da+ught > ukht (syster)
More interesting that these word are from some which are using to prove unity in indo-eurpean languages!
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Aug 12, 2018 1:08:46 GMT 3
hi to all in this 10 years I finde a post in ultra iranist nationalist website this website has antiturkist lines in most of its pages its most in persian in this web site they about saka peoples is said that scythians are ancestors of Gokturks and Huns however they also said thet ther Turks are not Turkic peoples acording to this website Huns and Gokturks were iranian peoples that their language is changed by altay peoples! they also presented a link to an english book`s page sorry for bad english look at this pdf book: books.google.com/books?id=8-OilJCX1moC&pg=PA143&dq=It+seems+hard+to+avoid+the+conclusion+that+the,+per+se,+had+strong+connections+with+%E2%80%94+if+not+ultimate+origins+in+%E2%80%94+Irano-Tocharian+east+Turkistan&hl=en&ei=nn60TbL3EOru0gHtwLVR&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=It%20seems%20hard%20to%20avoid%20the%20conclusion%20that%20the%2C%20per%20se%2C%20had%20strong%20connections%20with%20%E2%80%94%20if%20not%20ultimate%20origins%20in%20%E2%80%94%20Irano-Tocharian%20east%20Turkistan&f=false also look at the azargoshnasp site belongs to pan iranists azargoshnasp.net/Pasokhbehanirani/vaajeyehtork.htmThanks for the share. I m familiar with the website and I don't concur with your label "ultra nationalistic" or "pan". They might have some theories but far from what you can read in pan ideologies such as pan turkism. I believe in a near future when Iranology becomes once more popular in academia, there will be debates and comparisons between what many pan- somethings claimed about ancient Iranian history and heritage, right now it has no voice. supremacy and nationalism does not exist in the same sense that it exists in its neighbors.
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Post by ckuzik on Sept 29, 2022 7:16:35 GMT 3
I think sources like this are worth paying attention to:
It's a genetic study done on Saka gravesites, from varying locations.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 29, 2022 12:47:15 GMT 3
Indeed genetic data provide us with new and surprising info about the ethnic composition of tribes collectively known as Scythians and Saka.
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