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Post by sarmat on Dec 2, 2010 8:45:44 GMT 3
I don't think it has anything to do with Tengrism. It's a very primitive and ancient belief that afterlife is just another "life" so in order to be well prepared for it you just need to take all the best things you can with you there. Aren't Egyptian pharaohs an example?
Of course, a king would take his horses, riches and even slaves sometimes with him to the afterlife... That's a very common thing for all the ancient people.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 7, 2010 5:05:16 GMT 3
Ppl! U didn`t answer to my question!  Look at this pics -they are tree leaf shapes. Whick one is right pic? A or B? I ask again, which one is right 1 or 2. Every one know what is wrong what is right!   Is this parity? Duality in oneness? or trinity? or life and death? or is it simply a word play?  |
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Post by merlkir on Dec 7, 2010 16:55:06 GMT 3
Nonsense?
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 7, 2010 17:31:00 GMT 3
It's no nonsense. In Tengrism there is the trinity of oneness of Tengri. The Sky is Tengri, the sun is the KORGÖZ (ever glowing eye of Tengri) the moon is the KÖRGÖZ (the blind eye of Tengri). This is trinity in Tengrism. Father-Mother and sky |
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Post by merlkir on Dec 7, 2010 17:41:08 GMT 3
I meant the heart thingy.
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 8, 2010 2:37:52 GMT 3
It's symbolism and symbolism is not nonsense. You couldn't read what I'm writing if you didn't understand the symbols of the letters, the words, or the sentences.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 8, 2010 3:18:09 GMT 3
It's symbolism and symbolism is not nonsense. You couldn't read what I'm writing if you didn't understand the symbols of the letters, the words, or the sentences. The irony in this is that it was symbolism itself that gave fruit to the idea of God, which in turn created science and ultimately denial of God. |
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Post by merlkir on Dec 8, 2010 11:23:02 GMT 3
It's symbolism and symbolism is not nonsense. You couldn't read what I'm writing if you didn't understand the symbols of the letters, the words, or the sentences. It doesn't mean anything at all. We are conditioned by our culture to know and recognize the stylized symbol of the heart and of a leaf. Somehow he implies that the "right" picture is that of the heart, I guess. Why? Heart is a muscle that's pumping the blood through our bodies. Why is it right (right in what sense?) and why is a leaf (a part of a tree, a completely unrelated object) wrong? It's a poor mindgame, "Oooh, see what I did there, guys, I'm so clever and spiritual! Everything is connected in my wonderful religion, see? One shape is right and wrong at the same time, it depends on orientation. Spirituality!" The thing is, I don't see how this is in any way related to Tengri or Tengriism. It seems to me you guys look for stuff that's not there, like in carpets and their patterns and whatever. What's with that? |
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 8, 2010 11:54:56 GMT 3
Merlkir,
Just because you don't speak the language of the symbolism doesn't mean there isn't a message to be read. It can be difficult to read when you're not a member of the culture, when you haven't been taught the sounds for the letters. I think what you don't understand about an illiterate culture is that cultural knowledge is found amongst symbols other than the written word. What is "right" depends upon what the culture teaches. An h is an j sound in Spanish but an h sound in English and no sound at all in French! Europeans told many stories to the illiterate through symbolic images on the walls of churches.
As you say, we are conditioned by our culture to know what the symbols of the heart means. It isn't just a muscle pumping blood through our bodies, but a symbol of love or an expression of desire or sincerity. Symbolism is not literal.
What Bor Chono is really asking is not which is "right" and which is "wrong", but which symbol conveys a message. Only those who can speak the target culture's symbolic language will know the answer.
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Post by merlkir on Dec 8, 2010 12:15:51 GMT 3
Alright. Dumb literate barbarians like me need an explanation I guess. ;P I pity the leaf symbol, poor thing! It shouldn't be less important than a heart, it's not its fault that it's upside down.  |
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 9, 2010 0:52:48 GMT 3
Hurmasta Tengri. Mongols worship to Hurmasta(=?) Tengri. (I think it is Rain Tengri, word "Hur" means "Rain"). When Mongols attack they would shout "Hurai". When they celebrate something they shout "Hurai". Oops a little(-I guess!) mistake there! -When Mongols attack they say "Uraa.." or "Urraa.."(maybe "Uuhai...") -well it sounds like "Hurrai"(=Hurray?). "Uraa..."(-Kalimag Mongol way) is short form of word "Uragshaa..."(=Forward..!). Mongols say "Hurray" a lot -When a child fall down & crying Mothers say "Hurai.. Hurai.." to stop it crying. -When ppl are celebrating something (=during party), every time after someone told something(=wishes & tosts) others shout "Hurai..Hurai".  So "UR" is related to UP&forward, as in "head pointing towards Tengri" Also in Turkey we say YAĞMUR (rain) meaning: hail (m)ur (hail meaning something close to "pour"; but YA=YAA=YAĞ also is the sound to hail! someone For example YAA ALLAH! So the word Yağmur itself could be the prayer and thanks giving for the rain. YAĞMUR= halleluyah for the rain! ? or maybe it means YAB-MUR= run for cover! its the rain (yab is something close to "protection", "a closed place") Strange stuff. I keep seeing this UR, OR, IR in thousands of place names around the world and also geographical & movement & nature words in many different languages. It looks like there is some kind of magic in this word, but I can't find the original one. |
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Post by Bor Chono on Dec 9, 2010 13:32:04 GMT 3
Ppl! U didn`t answer to my question! I ask again, which one is right 1 or 2. Every one know what is wrong what is right! Is this parity? Duality in oneness? or trinity? or life and death? or is it simply a word play? This is my silly question. Simply the idea is, everyone has own idea what is wrong what is right. Traditions differ from place to place. And that is strange. Here in Mongolia pointed part is top = mountains are pointed. But if you put Heart symbol pointed part as top, and make clothing, ppl will tell you "hey Hearth is placed wrong". All these ideas are under one sky. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 9, 2010 18:11:11 GMT 3
So "UR" is related to UP&forward, as in "head pointing towards Tengri" Also in Turkey we say YAĞMUR (rain) meaning: hail (m)ur (hail meaning something close to "pour"; but YA=YAA=YAĞ also is the sound to hail! someone For example YAA ALLAH! So the word Yağmur itself could be the prayer and thanks giving for the rain. YAĞMUR= halleluyah for the rain! ? or maybe it means YAB-MUR= run for cover! its the rain (yab is something close to "protection", "a closed place") Strange stuff. No it is not. |
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 10, 2010 0:55:59 GMT 3
Bor Chono, your silly question actually has a very serious foundation. There's a whole school of study devoted to symbols called semiotics. It has applications in linguistics, but also more mundane things such as medical science. A doctor reads signs/symptoms to try to tell what is making a person sick.
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Post by Kilij Arslan on Dec 10, 2010 1:39:14 GMT 3
Look at this pics -they are tree leaf shapes. Whick one is right pic? A or B? Is it just me, or is there an obvious world-tree in these inverted hearts? And for me both seem to be allright, one because of the heartness (and the fact that leaves actually due to gravity point themselves downwards), the other because of this 'growth' and world tree thing. It all depends on what do I focus. Still, I don't see mountain there  |
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