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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 10, 2010 2:37:14 GMT 3
Bor Chono, your silly question actually has a very serious foundation. There's a whole school of study devoted to symbols called semiotics. It has applications in linguistics, but also more mundane things such as medical science. A doctor reads signs/symptoms to try to tell what is making a person sick. Indeed according to Tengrist philosophy everything in the world consists of differences which are held in dynamic balance and so their total is nil. Likewise the general theory of Saussure which is the base of modern semiotics maintain that in language (and essentially in any sign system) "nothing but differences" exists. BTW, I didn't grasp that picture riddle too  . Why the heart should be right  ? I believe the heart is on left  , so maybe it should be left alone ;D. |
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 10, 2010 3:51:37 GMT 3
There's a concept called universal semiotic opposition. Cultural researchers utilize that feature in order to compare different mythologies. It's been found that all human cultures have binary symbols held in opposition to each other. The little article I have about it mentions how two Russian researchers, V.V. Ivanov and V.N. Toporov, were able to reconstruct the complete system of old Slavic and Ket dieties.
life/death
day/night
sun/moon
I don't consider the heart "right". I mean yes, if you want to symbolize a heart then that's the correct symbol to use (at least in Western symbolism). Bor Chono asked about tree leaf shapes. Across many cultures, the tree is represented growing upwards. That's why I posted all those Tree of Life images.
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 10, 2010 4:02:52 GMT 3
"Just as God gave different fingers to a hand, God gave different ways to men" - Hulagu Khan to a Christian priest complaining about Christians/Muslims/Shamanist tolerance within the Mongol Uls.
Sometimes I find it troubling that even many Atheists do not share the same level of tolerance for other cultures/religions that Tengriists exhibit.
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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 11, 2010 3:07:32 GMT 3
In Tengrism there is no absolutes or fixed dogmas. Everything differs in one way or another but all differences are balanced in nothing. Human mind is limited by Tengri and we can perceive everything only in relative terms. Both good and evil, right and wrong exist in every being, human or spiritual, and everybody can do both. Whoever do more good is considered "good", and whoever do more bad is considered "evil". But what is right today can be wrong tomorrow and our views will change. Tengri doesn't punish nor rewards, just maintains the balance. When something disturbs it, it is destroyed and vanishes "by the will of Tengri".
I think the Tengrism is for Steppe peoples what Shinto is for Japanese. One can practice it along with some other religion or with none at all. It is a natural philosophy of living in harmony with environment and all infinite diversities of the multiverse (I prefer this term instead of "universe" which suggests only one ultimate truth or "reality").
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Post by merlkir on Dec 11, 2010 4:22:56 GMT 3
So, Tengri keeps up with what's considered good and bad at all times in every different culture, so he can keep the balance? How does he balance deeds in two cultures that percieve good and bad differently, perhaps even completely oppositely?
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 11, 2010 4:59:52 GMT 3
So, Tengri keeps up with what's considered good and bad at all times in every different culture, so he can keep the balance? How does he balance deeds in two cultures that percieve good and bad differently, perhaps even completely oppositely? Tengri is not involved. Tengri have agents on Earth that bid Tengri's will. By Tengri's will (naturally) , those different cultures will either kill each other to the point where the difference no longer matters, or they will see the error in their ways over time leading to a better future. Humans can never reach the absolute truth; They can only get closer to it. The only absolute truth is Tengri. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 11, 2010 7:57:46 GMT 3
In Tengrism there is no absolutes or fixed dogmas.... Both good and evil, right and wrong exist in every being... One can practice it along with some other religion or with none at all. It is a natural philosophy of living in harmony with environment and all infinite diversities of the multiverse And that is what I love about it. Though I'm rather more on the evil side considering I'm extremely intolerant against intolerant religions and "racist" against racialist cultures lol, oh well, I guess I help keep the balance in my own way, someone has to... that's what I tell myself anyway ;D Need more spiritual leaders here in AUS tbh to bring my own self back to balance, Tengriism is rather unknown here |
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 12, 2010 0:22:56 GMT 3
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Post by merlkir on Dec 12, 2010 12:04:43 GMT 3
Which signs, the obvious swastikas? Oh, I'm sorry, I meant the...ehm...windmill cross of Tengri, no doubt.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 12, 2010 17:45:44 GMT 3
Swastikas, hence the sun.
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Post by snafu on Dec 12, 2010 19:08:59 GMT 3
Some of those patterns and designs were brought to the middle east by steppe people, who used similar patterns in their embroidery.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 13, 2010 17:57:57 GMT 3
Some of those patterns and designs were brought to the middle east by steppe people, who used similar patterns in their embroidery. Yes that's obvious since he was a Turk himself. What I don't get it why are the ones near the main door + signs while the ones on the wall are somehow broken + signs. They are symmetrical but still not going to a single center. Their edges are not pointing each other. They seem to be related to Sufism. Whirling. Also those swastika like signs are they tamgas? Do you know of any tamgas like those? Also why does the wall look like a labyrinth? Is there any tale about a labyrinth in Tengrism? |
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Post by merlkir on Dec 13, 2010 18:53:07 GMT 3
I'm sure there's some deep Tengriist meaning to this. -_-
To my uneducated atheist eye it looks just like a mosaic pattern where lines are outlined by another line.
(if it's a labyrinth, it sucks, because it's tiled from bits that are the same.)
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 17, 2010 3:06:02 GMT 3
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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 18, 2010 2:25:32 GMT 3
Svastika means literally "well-being" in Sanskrit (su-asti-ka).
The Islamic art usually applies abstract patterns because of the taboo on images. They are very similar to the Steppe art and some of them have probably originated from it (see f.e. Titus Burckhardt, "Sacred Art in East and West", ch. 4, IV).
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. Why the heart should be right 
? I believe the heart is on left 
, so maybe it should be left alone ;D.
