Modu Tanhu
Tarqan
Yağmur yağdı ıslanmadım, kar d?k?ld? uslanmadım.
Posts: 96
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Post by Modu Tanhu on Sept 21, 2011 2:30:03 GMT 3
Well from what I know about the name Bulgar is that the nowadays Slavic Bulgar people claim that it is derived from a Slavic word.
But it is commonly known that its derived from the Turkic word bulga, meaning to mix?
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Post by Ardavarz on Sept 21, 2011 8:18:42 GMT 3
My point was that there are many theories and view-points possible, some of them more probable than other because of consistency, logic and factual evidence, but still there is no final answer and no "common known" truth (actually being "common known" makes something even more suspicious). History consists mainly of legends and myths - some ancient and some recently concocted to fit some people's agenda - and it changes constantly with the changes of our perception of it. As Nietzsche has said there aren't any facts, only interpretations. That is because only present moment exists. We cannot be sure even of our personal memories, but we take them for granted because it suits us to base on them our interpretation of the present reality. As for me, I don't believe even in my own birth (well, I don't actually remember it, do I ;D?). After all it is only something that other people have told me that they remember and this too is so only if I assume that they really exist outside my own perception of them which is virtually unprovable  . So ultimately nothing is true and everything is possible  . |
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Post by ancalimon on Sept 21, 2011 11:18:27 GMT 3
Yeah, that's funny ;D. But as I said there are many theories, for instance: "city people" (from Turkic balïq/baluq) or "fortress people" (from Roman burgi - "frontier fortresses" < Greek pyrgos, cf. also Arabian burj - "tower" and Arabian name of Danube Bulgars - Burjān), other thought bulgar was a social designation (for higher or lower class depending on which etymology is chosen - Turkic or Latin), there are also folk etymologies like "wolf people" (referring to common Altaic myth about wolf origin, but from an Indo-European word for "wolf" - bulga/vḷk) or "good people" (from Slavic blag - "good") etc. Indeed nobody knows for sure what this name really meant! What is interesting is that there is a persistent tradition in different and independent medieval sources suggesting that this was not the original name of those people, but rather a nickname. For instance that Volga Bulgarian legend reported by Abu Hamid al-Garnati which I mentioned in my previous post maitains that the name "Bulgar" was adopted after converting to Islam, while according to Danube Bulgarian apocryphal chronicle "Vision of Isaiah" this was the name by which "the third part" of the Cumans were called after converting to Christianirty, i.e. in both cases the native folklor relates it to the act of adopting a foreign religion and loosing their original Steppe identity. Even though that historically this is not correct the legend itself is significant all the more because it has originated from the natives. The Syrian chronicles also report another legend according to which Bulgarians were one of three tribes from Central Asia or "Inner Scythia" (one of the ohers being Khazars) namely that one which settled as Byzantine federates in Moesia and was called this way by the Romans. Of course, all these are legends, but still they should have meant something. Turkic balýq/baluq would be consistent with the name Balkan. While it means rough mountain range with forests, balkan is also related with swamp and also stable, sturdy, rugged. i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/ancalimonungol/temp/balkan.jpgIt also means the following: balqan: balðan. ◊ (< bal). iti. kəsərli. ◊ qýzqýn. ◊ iyit. pəkləvan. pəhləvan. ◊ məncənaq. ◊ balýð xan. balýð, þəhər xaqaný. ◊ sarp, uzanan hündür dað. ◊ tuðay. çəkələk. cəngəl. urman. ðaba. meþə. biqþə. bükþə {biþə (fars) < bük). balkan. sýx ormanlý, sarp sýradaðlar. balðan. balkan. qalðan. uca. yüksək. -balqan daðlar. qýzqýn (kýzgýn in Turkish): angry iyit (yiðit in Turkish): brave, honorable, valiant, daredevil, red-blooded məncənaq: (mancýnýk in Turkish): catapult þəhər xaqaný (þehir hakaný in Turkish): controller, regulator of a city cəngəl (çengel): fork, hook urman (orman):forest ðaba: (kaba) rugged, rough, vulgar, brute, rude, barbarous, uncivilized, ... meþə (meþe): oak bük: twist, bend, curve, hook, ... balkan means something sturdy. For example there is a city in Turkey named Balýkesir and it comes from "Balýq Hisar" meaning "sturdy castle". There was also someone named Balaq Gazi in Elazýð Turkey. Most importantly, it's a verb: balqanlaþma: balkanlaþma. ( < balmaq: bölmək). ayrýþma. parçalanma. təcziyələnmə. bir topraqda çeþitli neçə devlətə bölünmə. bölmek (to divide, to break down, to split, to parcel out...) translate.google.com/#auto|en|bölmekayrýþma: to dissolve (and connect together stronger in smaller quantities "for example like cement"). decomposition, dissociation, parçalanma: to break down into smaller components PS: I guess that balgam (mucus, spit) is related to this as well because in the past people divided lands by spitting on the ground. People might have thought that just like mucus breaks the food we eat into smaller components for our body, it also divided lands among different people... Found this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Spitit says to become divided into many different countries on the same land. təcziyələnmə: to become a lesser political entity. (for example from empire to country to state to city to district to village...) I guess all of the above shows us that Balkan - Balýq (city) and Polis are related words. This would make Balkan both a Turkish word and also a Greek word in its essence. (since poly : bol, ~böl and polis : balýq). For an empire to become divided into many city states, it has to "balkanlaþmak". All the problem lies within finding the true etymology of the word balýq:city. I have been trying to figure it out for a long time. Maybe the people who built balýqs were tyrans who hoarded the wealth of people who lived around the balýq inside the balýq and that's why balqan also means catapult (catapults were used against the castles) ? And the people who built balýqs were also law makers as a result balqan was also called city regulator? |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 21, 2011 13:43:51 GMT 3
There is also a mountain just east of the Caspian named Balqan.
But "Balkanization" is a modern term as far as I know, related with the political events that has been happening in the Balkans since the 19th century.
The words Balkan and Polis have nothing to do with each other.
And Old Turkic Balïq, as I explained here in this forum before, derives from Balčïq meaning "mud, clay", as towns in Central Asia were built with these materials.
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Post by ancalimon on Sept 21, 2011 14:46:14 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2011 1:55:05 GMT 3
Balčïq derives from Bal meaning "Honey" because the ancient Turks perceived mud as a sticky thing too.
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Post by ancalimon on Sept 22, 2011 14:40:39 GMT 3
Balčïq derives from Bal meaning "Honey" because the ancient Turks perceived mud as a sticky thing too. That makes sense. BAL: place where wealth of the bees is collected. Palace of the bees BAL: sticky substance BAL: bees divided pollens they collected into smaller components make honey with them and honey is a miraculous substance. |
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Post by ALTAR on Sept 22, 2011 21:50:13 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 23, 2011 3:15:24 GMT 3
Yeah, this is where I was talking about. |
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Post by ancalimon on Sept 23, 2011 17:45:45 GMT 3
Well I walk also strait but I think there are different reasons for that. My girlfriend call me a bear. Its due to my body complex. Its harder for me to walk like in picture one. As we talk about Tengri. I see we have a Tengrikut who is the Tengri worshiper. Could you tell us more about Tengrizm and comment on any of our mistakes. It would be bad if we will make you angry. For I am a new person to this religion. I only know it through books and old stories from elders who are not Tengri worshipers. We have this pictures all over stepps and more on the mountains such as Altai and Tianshan close to Almaty. Many in Kazakhstan considers them as the picture of Tengri on earth. You may probably saw same pictures before its easy to remember it.  Whats your idea about it? The circle represents infinity from our perspective. It also represents "query, question". The outside of the circle represents Tengri from our perspective. |
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Post by hjernespiser on Sept 23, 2011 18:56:33 GMT 3
It's an eeren!
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Post by ancalimon on Sept 25, 2011 0:22:21 GMT 3
Does that word have something to do with how shamans go into trance and change into a form between a soul and nonexistence? |
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Post by hjernespiser on Sept 25, 2011 6:35:17 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 25, 2011 20:33:37 GMT 3
Cool. I think two or three years ago there was this exhibition in the Ankara University about modern Khakas paintings regarding shamanism and Khakas mythology, they had some really nice paintings there.
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Post by hjernespiser on Sept 25, 2011 20:52:02 GMT 3
That one is, according to the caption on my copy of a Sabjilar cd, "Chilbigen", the spirit of the moon.
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. So ultimately nothing is true and everything is possible 
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