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Post by Temüjin on Dec 2, 2007 17:50:10 GMT 3
akin to the other thread about our enemies, which one is our closest ally?  |
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Dec 2, 2007 23:54:03 GMT 3
Other - Celts
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Post by Temüjin on Dec 3, 2007 0:21:44 GMT 3
i like Celts but Scythians and Celts often fought against each others in Central Europe. |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 3, 2007 1:42:05 GMT 3
Steppe people are surrounded by overall hostile nations of China, Russia, and Iran.
Who else is opposed to those three nations?.. Correct, the U.S.
"The enemy of our enemy is our friend"
Therefore, it is most benefiting for us to be cooperate with Americans.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Dec 3, 2007 5:07:04 GMT 3
Steppe people are surrounded by overall hostile nations of China, Russia, and Iran. Who else is opposed to those three nations?.. Correct, the U.S. "The enemy of our enemy is our friend" Therefore, it is most benefiting for us to be cooperate with Americans. No way... USA is not our friend ever |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 3, 2007 9:19:15 GMT 3
Then we have a little misunderstanding about the definition of "us" ;D
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Post by Atabeg on Dec 3, 2007 11:34:28 GMT 3
Steppe Nations have what they need resouces, workers, scholars, scientists,etc... we accualy don't need foreigners  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 3, 2007 20:12:47 GMT 3
None of those listed are our "friends", thus I voted for "other".
I really can not believe you can call the USA as our "friend" while that country is openly supporting pkk and the kurds against Turkey.
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Post by Temüjin on Dec 3, 2007 20:13:38 GMT 3
Steppe people are surrounded by overall hostile nations of China, Russia, and Iran. Who else is opposed to those three nations?.. Correct, the U.S. "The enemy of our enemy is our friend" Therefore, it is most benefiting for us to be cooperate with Americans. good assessment. how about India then? their huge manpower could come in handy, particularly against China. |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 3, 2007 22:53:30 GMT 3
I really can not believe you can call the USA as our "friend" while that country is openly supporting pkk and the kurds against Turkey. This statement is your subjective opinion and not necessary a truth. US-Kurdish relationships are far from being one-dimensional. United States is among many states that included PKK on their lists of terrorist organizations. American ally Israel helped Turkish intelligence to capture Abdullah Ocalan in Kenya and Mossad played a crucial role in that operation. In many cases American government provided support for Saddam Hussein who was slaughtering Kurds. Not to mention the long-lasting alliance between US and Turkey as NATO members. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 4, 2007 3:05:21 GMT 3
This statement is your subjective opinion and not necessary a truth. US-Kurdish relationships are far from being one-dimensional. United States is among many states that included PKK on their lists of terrorist organizations. American ally Israel helped Turkish intelligence to capture Abdullah Ocalan in Kenya and Mossad played a crucial role in that operation. In many cases American government provided support for Saddam Hussein who was slaughtering Kurds. Not to mention the long-lasting alliance between US and Turkey as NATO members. The US and Turkey might be NATO members, the US might have included pkk into it's "terrorists list", but the US is still openly supporting pkk by trying to stop Turkey from using it's natural self-defence right. You are probably not following the news. No need to tell that the great majority of weapons captured from the pkk is American made, plus there are many reports of American officers visiting pkk camps, and many evidences of Americans logisticially supplying the pkk. The very fact that anti-Turkish kurdish separatist groups freely existing in Western European countries, as well as in the USA, is a single evidence prooving that these countries are the biggest enemies of the Republic of Turkey. I also don't understand why all the Qazaqs I met in my life are so pro-American and also so pro-kurdish. Are you getting paid by them or something? |
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Dec 4, 2007 8:20:55 GMT 3
Remember that USA have always been anticommunistic state, and still they co-operated with Romania in Cold War era, only because Ceaucescu was against USSR.
And USA also supported Pol Pot against Hun Sen in Cambodia.
In Europe my countrys best friend have been in 1900s Germany. Imperial Germany, Weimars Republic, Nazi Germany... No matter of government there, we still were friends.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 5, 2007 2:22:05 GMT 3
the US is still openly supporting pkk by trying to stop Turkey from using it's natural self-defence right They're trying to prevent their mess in Iraq from becoming a regional war, where other nations will involve. Once Turks will invade, the consequences are unimaginable. Other countries like Iran and Syria may use the chaos produced from the Turkish-Kurdish war and may join, too. great majority of weapons captured from the pkk is American made PKK is clearly linked to the legitimate government of Iraqi Kurdistan, which is supported by the US. But it doesn't mean that US supports PKK, though. plus there are many reports of American officers visiting pkk camps, and many evidences of Americans logisticially supplying the pkk. Sources? Some groups in Turkey are doing a great job with demonizing the Americans (their biggest success - American and Arab portrayal in "Kurtlar Vadisi - Irak"). There's a big chance that those "reports" and "evidences" may have been generated by those interest groups to foster the anti-Americanism in Turkey. The very fact that anti-Turkish kurdish separatist groups freely existing in Western European countries, as well as in the USA, is a single evidence proving that these countries are the biggest enemies of the Republic of Turkey. The biggest East Turkistani separatist groups that openly oppose China also exist in Europe and US. The reason for that is the Western freedom of speech. People from Eastern countries like Turkey and Kazakstan may not understand that, but it is the essence of the West to accept the pluralism. Being pro-American doesn't make you pro-kurdish. Actually, I never met any pro-Kurdish Kazaks in my life, nor in the internet. However, what bothers some Kazak Turkists, including me, is the "double standard" policy on the Kurdish issue we have to practice. I am talking about every nation's right to self-determination, and especially our support for the E.Turkistan independence movement. If it wasn't for the brotherly nation of Turkey, there would be no reason for us to oppose the Kurdish independence. Well, Americans are paying for our oil, if that counts  It's not about "payment", it's about national interests. As I said before, the enemy of our enemy is our friend. Therefore, Kazakstan has to rely on the alliance with the US in its struggle to keep its sovereignty from Russia and China. |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 5, 2007 2:27:49 GMT 3
Remember that USA have always been anticommunistic state, and still they co-operated with Romania in Cold War era, only because Ceaucescu was against USSR. And USA also supported Pol Pot against Hun Sen in Cambodia. Again, in Realpolitik, the national interests are more important than the "values" and the populist rhetoric. "He may be a son-of-a-b!tch, but he is our son-of-a-b!tch." (US Secretary of State Cordell Hull on the the Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo) |
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Post by aca on Dec 5, 2007 17:42:30 GMT 3
Dear BAWIR$AQ-yabghu, we have a nice proverb:
"Ko s Ðavolom tikve sadi, o glavu mu se razbijaju"
Meaning: If you plant pumpkins together with the Devil, he will eventualy smash them on your head
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