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Post by ALTAR on May 22, 2010 2:19:05 GMT 3
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Post by sarmat on May 22, 2010 4:50:14 GMT 3
Idiotic video given that Nazists, basically, considered Mongols as "human trash" and, usually, used "Mongolian" to describe everything inferior, uncivilized and primitive. Now Mongols are trying to imitate them, what a joke  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 22, 2010 11:20:40 GMT 3
OMG, they are totally awful ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Subu'atai on May 22, 2010 12:14:05 GMT 3
Idiotic video given that Nazists, basically, considered Mongols as "human trash" and, usually, used "Mongolian" to describe everything inferior, uncivilized and primitive. Now Mongols are trying to imitate them, what a joke The sad thing is that the folks started off with good intentions, but then realised most of their supporters would be xenophobic and uneducated human trash. Numbers game in politics. Hence despite the origin of the Khas... ... They have Nazi GERMAN salutes -.- ... which I find very embarrassing. And I can't say "well I'm not Khalkha", cause to everyone, we Mongols are all the same, and the world doesn't even know Kalmykia or Dzungaria in East Turkistan even exists ;D (Btw, this seems like the fate of all nationalist movements btw -> start off good, then get swamped by human trash) The interesting thing about the Nazis though, in history their philosophy was based on racial discrimination. Yet during the war on the Eastern Front in WW2, they promised Kalmyks independence and support if they sided with Nazis, leading to Kalmyk guerillas killing Red Army troops which made Stalin nervous and hence led to the 1943 deportation...  EDIT: Btw Sarmat, I wonder if your views are the same in regards to Neo-Nazis in Russia, just curious >.> |
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Post by sarmat on May 22, 2010 21:18:43 GMT 3
Well. I think Neo-Nazists in Russia is the biggest shame of the Russian nation. It's even much more idiotic and stupid than the Neo-Nazism in Mongolia, since Nazists killed so many people in the USSR, just because they were "Untermensch" and wanted to exterminate all the Russians and make them slaves at best. In the end, however, Russians defeated all that self-confident Wermach warmachine and were in Berlin, while the Nazists never were in Moscow. Nevertheless, some perverters that are called "Neo-Nazists" exist in Russia and get so much attention due to their very violent behavoir. It's almost seems like somekind of a mental sickness to me caused by some kind of extreme stupidity and lack of self-respect... The good thing though is that those guys are just a very small minority yet the fuss they create is too big...
You're correct in noticing that Nazists liked to promise a lot to different people during WWII. I'll explain what was going on there... In the beginning of the war in the East, Nazists didn't plan any independence for the Soviet minorities. Moreover, in many instances they were singled out and exterminated when the Nazists were "clearing up" huge numbers of their Soviet POWs. Many thousands of Mongolian looking Soviet soldiers (because they were the lowest degree of Untermensch) as well as Muslims because they were circumcised (and just were "Jews" by default) were shot as human trash. There were also many Nazi propaganda brochures like "Untermensch" were Asiatic barbarians, Attila and Gensghis khan were blamed for all the European problems and Bolsheviks were called nothing more than "modern Mongolo-Huns of Attila" leaded by Jews etc. That all was combined with numerous photos of Mongoloid looking Soviet POWs which were supposed to create the terryfying and disgusting Mongolo-Jew image of Untermesch. Even, Hitler in one of his speaches said that Russians became "corrupted" because their blood was mixed with Untermecht from Central Asia etc. All of that created a climate of intolerance towards people of "not-Arian" looks in Germany and some prominent Turkic intellectuals which escaped from Russia after the Bolshevik revolution were openly discriminated and even beaten on the streets. Nevertheless, the Third Reich also had smart people that believed that all the Untermecht stuff is stupid and Germans rather should have used different Soviet ethnic minoritied in their interests. That's why by the end of 1942 (when it became obvious that Germans weren't winning the war in the East so quickly) they massively started to recruit people from the Soviet ethnic minorities including Kalmyks. Yet, there were a lot of problems with that because most of the German commanders and general public were brainwashed with Untermecht stuff and at the same time, most of those units weren't complitely trusted at all. It's worth mentioning that the first unit of the "Turkestan legion" that Nazists wanted to use against the Partisans in Belorussia complitely desrted to partisans and joined them against Nazists. Because of that Nazists prefered not to employ all those units in the East, and mostly used them against the resistance fighters in Europe. However, a lot of publicity with all that legions etc. was created and the crazy Stalin was mad at poor Kalmyks and Crimean Tatars for their "cooperation" with Nazists and deported them to Siberia, although, ironically, their were much more Kalmyks and Crimean Tatars in the active Soviet army than in all Nazi created military formations. Also, in fact, the biggers number of the collaborationaries that Nazists were able to recruit were Russian themselves. The so-called Russian Liberation Army of General Vlasov, that was supposed to fight against "Bolshevism" and was very large (several hundred thousands); nevertheless, Nazists were afraid to use that army as well and in the very end of the war it joined the insurgents in Prague anti-Nazi uprising. So, the Nazi policies were smart at times, but they were just caused by the military necessities and the fact that they were in conflict with the very core of the Nazi racial ideology created many problems. Nazists made a lot of promisies but they were never going to implement them as was the good example of the Western Ukrainian nationalists who were tricked by Nazists to join them against the "Bolsheviks" for the sake of "independent Ukraine" and in the end when the independent Ukraine was never created those Ukrainian nationalists were fighting against Nazists and Bolsheviks all together. More importantly, I think it's humiliating for a Mongol person to imitate the style and habits of the political movement that considred his own great ancestors just as animals and blood thirsty barbarians, fit only for plunder, murder and chaos. Yeah, the Nazi things look so "cool" and stylish but there much more in Mongolian history that Mongolian nationalists could be proud about... No need to imitate the Nazi freaks !
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Post by Subu'atai on May 23, 2010 13:02:40 GMT 3
Interesting Sarmat, I thought my relatives in Russia were the only ones who can see how really stupid Neo-Nazism there really is. Our grandfathers and great grandfathers fought against Nazism and what do you know? We now have kids running around with "Swastikas" lol. However this "Wannabe-Western" mentality has occured subtly throughout Russian history, especially when many were called "dirty men of Europe" etc etc. Kinda sad really.
Stalin was just as bad or worse then Hitler however in my opinion. I've also heard of many Germans during the later years of WW2 starting to feel disillusioned as well with the stupid racial policies due to the reasons you mentioned above. It also sparked the assassination attempt.
As for Neo-Nazism in Mongolia, as I mentioned before it had good goals at first but eventually realised their "political army" would come from uneducated dumbasses instead. If it wasn't for the German Nazi salutes and xenophobic views things could be different. However, turns out they are polluting the ancient symbol as much as Nazi Germany did.
But it's not about fashion btw, or even pride:
The movement is based on pure xenophobia, more specifically -> sinophobia. Most of the population of Khalka Mongolia are very young, straining the economy which has few enough adult workers, hence the hiring of Chinese construction workers. Legal and illegal workers -> now comprise about 20% of the workforce. Hence the fear of being overrun in the future.
Also why many Khalkha Pan-Mongolists are more interested in calling everyone "home", rather then to focus on building relations between ethnic Mongols worldwide (my aim btw, not theirs). The reality in Khalkha Mongolia is however -> Chinese workers who are actually immigrants (Foreign workers doesn't mean automatically immigrant - a common misconception), are only in the mere DOZENS as the immigration policy is very strict. In my opinion, they are making a big deal out of nothing.
As for me, I'm fanatically proud of our people worldwide especially the Hazaras. But unlike these "Nazis", I'm a traditionalist. Re-uniting with my father at 18 (7 yrs ago) I started learning more of our culture and ways. Much has been lost, such as language which I can never pick up and Dad himself is rusty. But the one principle I admired the most about our nomadic roots is the fact that "race" is not a word on the steppes.
However I do hate the West, but NEVER its people, I hate mainly the racialist aspect of their culture. Nazi racialism is not new, it's been in Europe since the colonial era. What the Nazis say about "Mongoloids" is not exclusive to Nazis, it's in all Western texts and the reason why the term is still used for reference is because when studying anthropology or race itself, the only sources available are the same as in 18th century racialism. But of course, they re-named "Negroid" into "Congoid" recently.
Now with what the West/Nazis call us. Pffft! They called us ruthless and merciless, we wore it as a badge of pride against their hypocrisy. Kazakhs called "remnant", we made "remnant" into the name of OUR COUNTRY as a badge of pride. Our enemies genocided us twice, but we made it a badge of pride as our very existence to this day INSULTS THEM! ;D
I am PROUD to be a BARBARIAN.
But meh, I'm not just Oirat. I do worry for Russia as well. I don't know how many support Eurasianism in Russia, from what I've seen there are few. Oh well. I just hope before she passes on my grandmother can hold her first great grand-daughter in her arms. She lives in Novosibirsk atm. To this day I'm not very close to extended family, but being a father nowadays I'm starting realise how this is important.
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Post by sarmat on May 23, 2010 19:56:56 GMT 3
Well. In fact, a lot of people are concerned with modern "Neo-Nazism" in Russia. Recently, however, it seems that the government has finally woken up and they are cracking down neo-nazi litte bastards now. More and more of them are getting long prison terms...
These idiots are getting even more crazy, however, recently there was a big case where certain neo-nazi bandits got very high prison terms (because of the stupid membership in the "Council of Europe" Russia, unfortunately, can't implement death penalty), so they murdered the judge who issued the verdict. But, generally speaking, I think neo-nazists are loosing their ground in Russia now...
Of course, Stalin is monster akin to Hitler... Just some of his actions presumably had more positive effects than all the stuff that Hitler did, yet that doesn't absolve Stalin of his crimes.
Well, I do think, that "the Nazi style" insignia, uniforms, gestures etc. have certain appeal especially towards the young people. That's why so many got "charmed" with all that Nazi "coolness." The problem with these people, however, that they look only at the shining outside of the Nazi picture and ignore the very dirty insight of it...
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Post by Subu'atai on May 24, 2010 0:52:11 GMT 3
Well. In fact, a lot of people are concerned with modern "Neo-Nazism" in Russia. Recently, however, it seems that the government has finally woken up and they are cracking down neo-nazi litte bastards now. More and more of them are getting long prison terms... These idiots are getting even more crazy, however, recently there was a big case where certain neo-nazi bandits got very high prison terms (because of the stupid membership in the "Council of Europe" Russia, unfortunately, can't implement death penalty), so they murdered the judge who issued the verdict. But, generally speaking, I think neo-nazists are loosing their ground in Russia now... I am glad of this, but I do wonder though, if you support Eurasianism in Russia yourself. You have been very supportive and respectful, I would hate for you to have different views, but I will respect them nonetheless. In my opinion, it's the best way to avoid Western racialism for all Russian people whether Slavic, Turkic or Mongolic. But that's just me. Agreed, even Hitler himself struggled hard and that is to be commended, but both Hitler and Stalin committed subhuman crimes themselves and that will never be forgotten. Problem is the lack of education amongst these dumbasses. I had planned to further education for my people worldwide but such ambitions have unfortunately been put in the backburner due to parental and marital responsibilities. I just hope one day my daughter will side with me and forfill the dreams that I am failing to accomplish, but I can't force her... |
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Post by sarmat on May 24, 2010 1:15:21 GMT 3
I am glad of this, but I do wonder though, if you support Eurasianism in Russia yourself. You have been very supportive and respectful, I would hate for you to have different views, but I will respect them nonetheless. In my opinion, it's the best way to avoid Western racialism for all Russian people whether Slavic, Turkic or Mongolic. But that's just me. Yeah, Eurasianism is the ideology I totally support. It was in fact, created by the Russian thinkers and I think that would be the only right way for the political ideology to develop further in Russia with close cooperation with Mongolia and Central Asian countries. But it's still a lot remains to be done to firmly establish Eurasianism in Russia, despite the fact that Russia is a Eurasian country by default. ;D |
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Post by Subu'atai on May 24, 2010 1:38:17 GMT 3
I admit... you bring a lot of joy to my heart this morning Sarmat. I'm very glad =)
This has to be the best Monday morning ever lol! My kindest regards for you Sarmat, just before another workday lol. I would love to share a beer with you one day. Though... we are going off topic lol! xD
Cheers Anda/Bratan! =)
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Post by sarmat on May 24, 2010 19:01:18 GMT 3
Same feelings here, brother.  Looking forward to meet with you when I go to Australia ! ;D |
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Post by zinnmartina on May 28, 2010 1:24:04 GMT 3
By the old germanic tribes this symbol was used as a symbol of the sun and life.
In northern europe there are different archelogical founds of urn graves with urns with different symbols engraved in them. A very common symbol was the swastika.
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