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Post by mongolulus on Apr 5, 2009 15:37:40 GMT 3
Bar hebraeus in his ecclesiastical history wrote that the keraits converted to nestorianism in 1008. their saw a vision of saint sergius and got in contact with some assyrian priests. 200, 000 of them were baptized or something. info is scattered over the internet.
the kerait khan before hurchahus buyurug was called "markus khan". markus looks similar to the christian marcus.
anyway, Prime Minister Anandyn Amar argued in his book "A Brief history of Mongolia" (published 1934 in Ulaanbaatar) that the kerait were mongols.
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Post by mongolulus on Apr 5, 2009 15:38:11 GMT 3
their KHAN saw a vision... sorry
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Post by naiman on Apr 18, 2009 14:56:17 GMT 3
Bar hebraeus in his ecclesiastical history wrote that the keraits converted to nestorianism in 1008. their saw a vision of saint sergius and got in contact with some assyrian priests. 200, 000 of them were baptized or something. info is scattered over the internet. the kerait khan before hurchahus buyurug was called "markus khan". markus looks similar to the christian marcus. anyway, Prime Minister Anandyn Amar argued in his book "A Brief history of Mongolia" (published 1934 in Ulaanbaatar) that the kerait were mongols. Hello all Is any body of friends know the website which is working on the culture and tradition of turk and mongolian nation overall or especially for Naiman tribe . thanks
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Post by Subu'atai on Apr 18, 2009 15:42:18 GMT 3
I don't think I'll ever believe wholeheartedly any historical source written by only one nationality whether Turkey or Mongolia on any particular steppe issue anymore.
Nor will I ever believe wholeheartedly any historical source written by an outsider whether Western or Eastern in regards to any particular steppe issue anymore.
Either combine both Mongol and Turk minds to study objectively, as both true steppe people, or the history of our people will forever be sketchy at best.
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Post by mostafa on Apr 24, 2012 10:50:47 GMT 3
hello my friends I am a naiman boy from afghanistan. my oldmans of reletive said to me about naiman and shaiman.they said that naiman stayed in Parvan province in shekhali valley and shaiman went to Kundoz province.naiman and shaiman were brothers.they were in changhiz's group and after that chenghiz returned to mongolia,naiman and shaiman stayed in two provinces.I think that pashtuns are caused that I dont find out about naiman.they destroyed everythings that related about other tribes history.I am Muslim and sunni religious.hazara tribes said to us Uzbik for the religious(hazara are sheii religious).pashton said to us hazara for face and way of speaking.we live in Iran.Iranian people said to us that you are not hazara when ask us about religious.my oldmans of reletive said to me that we were Sunni and recently a lot of naimans became sheii and alot of other naimans named themself Tajik. I dont know otherthings about shaiman and naiman.and I am not sure that this informations are true or wrong?I dont know why naimans are in afghanistan?can u help me?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 25, 2012 10:31:11 GMT 3
Hi mostafa, welcome aboard. The Naimans were a nomadic people who lived in western Mongolia and established a khanate there probably around the 11th century. Records about their origins and history are not very common so no one knows how they appeared in history or where they came from. It is also not known if they were truely Turkic, Mongolic or both - most of their names and titles we know are Turkic but we have nothing written left from their language. The Naimans became Nestorian Christians and their khanate was destroyed by Temüjin Khan in 1204 (he later acquired the title Genghis Khan in 1206). After that, the Naiman people was incorporated into the Mongol Empire and they went to everywhere Mongol armies went. They fought in Mongol armies and they settled in areas conquered by the Mongols. This is how they ended up in Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, etc.
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Post by mostafa on Apr 28, 2012 9:59:51 GMT 3
Hi H.Ihsan Erkoc,you know ebout Shaiman? you know ebout Yajoj and Majoj?Iranian people believe that Mongol people or Turk people are Yajoj and Majoj!My history teachers say :Korosh(cirus)kings made a long and tall wall in Ghafghaz that stop the migration of Yajoj and Majoj.I am surprising and amusing.I am sure they are lying.They are saying that mongolian people are illness and all people are mongolism.(Mongolism :a kind of illness that relative to mind and nowaday they say to everybody are crazy and do thing unreasonable.
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Post by massaget on Apr 28, 2012 13:03:06 GMT 3
Simon Kezai in his Gesta Hunnorum and Hungarorum mentions the defeat of Cyrus by ancient hungarians who he calls scythes. He also writes they killed Cyrus and 330,000 of his warriors in the battle.
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Post by massaget on Apr 28, 2012 13:07:14 GMT 3
Majoj is probably Magog in here.
From the Gesta :
...Scythians are an old tribe, and scythia is a mighty power of the east. First king of Scythia were Magog, where the name Magyar comes from, he was son of Jafet.
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Post by sarmat on Apr 28, 2012 21:20:31 GMT 3
Hi H.Ihsan Erkoc,you know ebout Shaiman? you know ebout Yajoj and Majoj?Iranian people believe that Mongol people or Turk people are Yajoj and Majoj!My history teachers say :Korosh(cirus)kings made a long and tall wall in Ghafghaz that stop the migration of Yajoj and Majoj.I am surprising and amusing.I am sure they are lying.They are saying that mongolian people are illness and all people are mongolism.(Mongolism :a kind of illness that relative to mind and nowaday they say to everybody are crazy and do thing unreasonable. I think your history teachers are crazy and you should try to stay away from them if you can...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 29, 2012 0:00:12 GMT 3
I don't remember hearing about the name Shaiman before. Steppe peoples such as the Turks and Mongols have long been associated with the mythical Gog and Magog people mentioned in the books of Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). There was even a belief among early Muslims that if they fought with the Turks (during the 7th-8th centuries), Apocaplypse would occur because according to the Islamic belief, the Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Gog and Magog) were locked down behind a big wall by the prophet Dhu'l-Qarnayn (who has been associated both with Cyrus the Great and with Alexander the Great), and if this wall would be torn down, the Ya'juj and Ma'juj will swarm the earth - one of the many indications of the coming of the Apocalypse. This is why some of Muhammad's hadith sayings that warn Muslims not to fight with the Turks unless the Turks attack Muslims are sometimes associated with this belief. Of course this belief continued well into the 13th century when the Mongols came, who were identically the same with the Turks in the eyes of Arabs and Persians. However, as sarmat says, it's funny that even in the 21st century there are still people who believe such myths.
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Post by Ardavarz on Apr 29, 2012 0:15:03 GMT 3
Yajuj and Majuj are the Arabian renderings of the biblical Gog and Magog. The story about Dhulqarnain ("Two-Horned") who made a big iron wall against them is told in the Quran (sura 18). He is usually identified with Alexander and the wall - with the fortress of Derbent in Caucassus. But there were also other interpretations - Abu Raihan Biruni wrote about them in chapter IV of his work "Vestiges of the Past" (Athār al-Bākiya). In contemporary Iran however is popular opinion that Dhulqarnain was actually Cyrus. It is based on a relief portrait of Cyrus found in Pasargadae where he is pictured with two horns (symbol of divine power in ancient Middle East). I've seen it myself - it's just the traditional syncretic style of the Achaemenian art incorporating Assyrian, Elamitic and Egyptian features.
One of the versions about the death of Cyrus is that he was killed in the war with the Massagetae (Herodotus, I; 205-214). It was them that the Hungarian chronicles identified with Scythians. It was commom practice in Middle Ages to derive genealogy of the people from some biblical eponym (thus Magyar from Magog). I wouldn't rely much on such interpretations - even if those names were real people in the ancient times (Magog is mentioned in Genesis as son of Yaphet), they've become purely symbolic later and were applied by both Christians and Muslims to everybody they feared. I mentioned in another post that a Byzantine theologian long before the time of the Mongols identified Gog and Magog with the mythical Hyperboreans and the recent at that time Huns. Marco Polo puts them in China and Mongolia. And I remember that around the end of the cold war there was a popular belief amongst the apocalyptic visionaries of fundamentalist type, that Gog and Magog are the former Soviet Union and China who allied would attack the West in 1999.
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Post by ancalimon on Apr 29, 2012 3:51:38 GMT 3
Turks around the 11th century saw the Chinese as the Gog&Magog and the Great Wall as the wall built by Dhulqarnain.
Dhulqarnain is also sometimes seen as Hýzýr (el-Khidr). And according to some theories, the wall which he built was not a wall built between different nations but a wall built to fix a crack between different realms (meaning Gog&Magog were not humans to begin with)
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Post by mostafa on Apr 29, 2012 10:16:56 GMT 3
which have country the most population of naimans?whats the religious of naimans?In hazara tribes when children are polite and smart,every body says to child is Moghol(Mongol )and opposite of Moghol we say naMoghol(impolite).unfotunely Hazara people like of Iranian people hate from Mongol and changhiz khan but I love chenghiz khan and I dont know!!!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 29, 2012 12:08:52 GMT 3
The Naimans that settled in the conquered regions of the Mongol Empire all joined the Turkic tribal unions such as the Kazakhs and Tatars, so they all became Muslims.
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