Post by hjernespiser on Jan 30, 2009 9:21:06 GMT 3
Most of this info is contained in Roheim 1954.
In another thread, Maotun mentioned about the wealth of runic writings about ancient Hungarian religion that St. Stephen had ordered destroyed. There was also some discussion about how to tell what is Hungarian legend and what is copied from Western sources in the Hungarian Chronicles. Some of this is analyzed by Geza Roheim. He puts it this way: "It would not be surprising if the historical personages mentioned in the Chronicles had been superimposed on mythical prototypes. In this way they could pass the censorship of Christianity..." Roheim somewhat reconstructs truly Magyar mythic details from the Chronicles by using what is known about Vogul (Mansi) and Ostyak (Khanty) mythology, among others. I'm going to copy most of what is written and I'll put my own comments or words in italics. I hope that isn't too confusing. I'm just too lazy to summarize properly.
Jakubovich, commenting on this passage, observes that Hungarian, Turkic, and Vogul singers, often shamans, used to relate their heroic epic songs in the first person as if the hero himself were singing them, and that therefore this custom projects back to the heroes of ancient times. It is noted that the mythological figures of the Vogul and Ostyak also sing about themselves in the first person.
The Seven Magyars
The word Hetumoger (Seven Magyars) denotes the seven chiefs of the seven united tribes that formed the Magyar nation. Normally a designation like this is reserved for the name of the nation, like On Ogur or Tokuz Oguz, but the Chronicles specifically reserve this name for seven individuals. The other strange thing about the Seven Magyars is that the designation is used also in a derogatory sense. After a catastrophic defeat of one of the raiding Hungarian armies in Thuringia, all but seven of the captured fighting men were killed. Their ears cut off, these seven were ostracized after their return by their families and society, and compelled to wander as beggars from house to house. For this reason the Seven Magyars and Gok were called "Lazars". It is of these men, so condemned, that the common people speak, not of those first seven captains. Gok or diak (Latin: diaconus) means student in Hungarian. It is quite clear that what is meant here is the Magyar equivalent of aiod, or singer -- in other words, the shaman. The Christian king treated these heathen survivals as pariahs and commited them to the care of the Order of St. Lazare. To explain their condition, the fiction of the seven men captured in the disastrous defeat was invented. Even the present-day successors of these shamans excuse themselves, and say that they are not devils, that is heathens, shamans, but the servants of the Christian king, St. Stephen. These ancient singers or shamans may ahve sung many epic songs and incantations, but why just those of the Seven Magyars? The chieftains of the seven tribes are not nearly as prominent in the story of the invasion of Hungary as are Arpad and Almos. But if history hides mythology, the answer is simple: Numi-Tarem, the Sky-God of the Vogul, has seven sons and the Vogul shaman actually sings the songs of these seven sons of Tarem.
More later...
In another thread, Maotun mentioned about the wealth of runic writings about ancient Hungarian religion that St. Stephen had ordered destroyed. There was also some discussion about how to tell what is Hungarian legend and what is copied from Western sources in the Hungarian Chronicles. Some of this is analyzed by Geza Roheim. He puts it this way: "It would not be surprising if the historical personages mentioned in the Chronicles had been superimposed on mythical prototypes. In this way they could pass the censorship of Christianity..." Roheim somewhat reconstructs truly Magyar mythic details from the Chronicles by using what is known about Vogul (Mansi) and Ostyak (Khanty) mythology, among others. I'm going to copy most of what is written and I'll put my own comments or words in italics. I hope that isn't too confusing. I'm just too lazy to summarize properly.
"Then Tuhutum and his son Horca de Ziloc, having gone forth, came to Zobolsu and Thosu in the parts of the Mezesina Gate, and, when they had seen one another, they rejoiced with great joy, and, holding a feast, each one praised himself on his victory"
Jakubovich, commenting on this passage, observes that Hungarian, Turkic, and Vogul singers, often shamans, used to relate their heroic epic songs in the first person as if the hero himself were singing them, and that therefore this custom projects back to the heroes of ancient times. It is noted that the mythological figures of the Vogul and Ostyak also sing about themselves in the first person.
The Seven Magyars
The word Hetumoger (Seven Magyars) denotes the seven chiefs of the seven united tribes that formed the Magyar nation. Normally a designation like this is reserved for the name of the nation, like On Ogur or Tokuz Oguz, but the Chronicles specifically reserve this name for seven individuals. The other strange thing about the Seven Magyars is that the designation is used also in a derogatory sense. After a catastrophic defeat of one of the raiding Hungarian armies in Thuringia, all but seven of the captured fighting men were killed. Their ears cut off, these seven were ostracized after their return by their families and society, and compelled to wander as beggars from house to house. For this reason the Seven Magyars and Gok were called "Lazars". It is of these men, so condemned, that the common people speak, not of those first seven captains. Gok or diak (Latin: diaconus) means student in Hungarian. It is quite clear that what is meant here is the Magyar equivalent of aiod, or singer -- in other words, the shaman. The Christian king treated these heathen survivals as pariahs and commited them to the care of the Order of St. Lazare. To explain their condition, the fiction of the seven men captured in the disastrous defeat was invented. Even the present-day successors of these shamans excuse themselves, and say that they are not devils, that is heathens, shamans, but the servants of the Christian king, St. Stephen. These ancient singers or shamans may ahve sung many epic songs and incantations, but why just those of the Seven Magyars? The chieftains of the seven tribes are not nearly as prominent in the story of the invasion of Hungary as are Arpad and Almos. But if history hides mythology, the answer is simple: Numi-Tarem, the Sky-God of the Vogul, has seven sons and the Vogul shaman actually sings the songs of these seven sons of Tarem.
More later...
Those Magyar shamans sound similar to our Ozans.
