Attila
Är
History Enthusiast
Posts: 48
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Post by Attila on Oct 20, 2008 2:57:02 GMT 3
Hello everyone! Allow me to introduce myself, my username is Tukhechjen, named after a Hunnic general in the video game, Rome: Total War Barbarian Invasion. He was a skilled commander, to say the least. I am also of Croatian background (half, actually, and I live in the U.S.), and I think the Croats either descend from early Slavs, or Sarmatians, both of them being nomads. There is also a "legend" in my family (let me just call it one) that we are partially descended from Migration Era Huns, of course, it could be Avars too.
Well, anyway, were the Hunnic people Turkic, Mongolic, the forefathers of both groups, or something else entirely? I'm an amateur student of mainly ancient and medieval history, and studying possible ancestors interests me.
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Post by jstampfl on Oct 20, 2008 8:16:18 GMT 3
Here is some DNA research of a Xunnu site in Mongolia. "The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia. " webpage: www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtmlenjoy
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 20, 2008 12:50:42 GMT 3
The name "Hun" has two meanings. There was this real Hun people who were Turkic, but everyone brought under Hunnic rule was also called with the same name, so the name's useage was both ethnic and political. The Huns have nothing to do with the Mongols btw.
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 20, 2008 18:59:48 GMT 3
Welcome Tukhechjenyo the board.
There was a sizeable influence of Avars on Croats. There were some Turkish words in Croat Language which were directly coming from Avar Language and Ottoman Turks.
Huns were majorly Turkic. However there were some additional clans from different ethnic origins(Especially Mongolians). It is an interesting and an absolute fact in Steppe History. When a gropus is getting stronger and developed other steppe people are also joining them and hold their name too.
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Oct 21, 2008 4:04:55 GMT 3
So let me get this straight...
The Huns were a Turkic people, and the Mongolians were not, but because of lots of genetic intermixing, they are related peoples. Is this how it goes?
I usually try to think of these groups as political entities rather than racial/ethnic entities, because I know there was a lot of mixing which has been going on since time immemorial. Is this the right approach to take?
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Post by Bor Chono on Oct 21, 2008 8:42:28 GMT 3
Yep! Mongols always want share from Hunnic glory! ;D Hungarians & Mongols born with blue spot. It tells us that we have blood connection. But we look very different. So why Turks don`t born with blue spots? Hungarians, Turks, Bolgars, Mongols are same? Everyone likes to be different! Turks & Mongols have many common words. But only Mongols call each other "HUN" meaning "human".
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 21, 2008 13:59:39 GMT 3
Yes, as I explained before, ethnical names turn to political names if the that ethnic group becomes powerful. According to lingual analyses made by Peter A. Boodberg and Louis Bazin, the Asian Huns (Xiōngnú / Hsiung-nu 匈奴, xwn) and the Tabġač (Tuòbá / T'o-pa 拓跋, Tabghach) spoke a Turkic language; however, the language spoken by the Tabġač people also contained Mongolic words, which is normal because the Tabġač were originially a Mongolic people, as a branch of the *Serbi (Xiānbēi / Hsien-pei 鮮卑) people, yet they soon mixed with the Huns in Northern China and eventually become Turkified before ultimately getting Sinified. The oldest known Turkic words are also among the Hunnic words recorded in Chinese sources, plus the oldest known Turkic oral art work is a two-lined piece of poem recorded with Chinese characters (Louis Bazin has another article about this poem). This word existed in Celestial Turk (Kök Türük, Gök Türk, Tūjué / T'u-chüeh 突厥), Yenisei Qïrġïz (Kyrgyz) and Uyġur documents as Kün - this word is probably Turkic, not Mongolian
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Post by Bor Chono on Oct 23, 2008 11:30:21 GMT 3
There is no other word for "human" in 4 Mongolian lang. Everyone call each other "HUN". ;D Hun = human Hun + es(cell,part) = Hunes or Huns means "food" (ofcourse humans get their cells from food) Hun + ar(back,behind) = Hunar -old word for "clothing" (ofcourse humans will put clothing on ass) Huu = son boy Huur = dead body (ofcourse human body not animals -animal dead body is "Seg") Do Turks(kazak, kirkiz, uigars..etc) have other words for "human"?.
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Post by Atabeg on Oct 23, 2008 18:13:44 GMT 3
Well there is Insan but I don't know the root of the word
we have Kishi but that person.
sometimes Adem or Adam is used for man(person)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 24, 2008 0:27:59 GMT 3
Kün means "People" as a group. "Person" is Kiši (Kishi, sometimes Kiji or Kiži). Insan and Adem are words of Arabic origin.
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 24, 2008 0:34:34 GMT 3
Kün means "People" as a group. "Person" is Kiši (Kishi, sometimes Kiji or Kiži). Insan and Adem are words of Arabic origin. Kiji and Kiži are used in Siberian Turks. Altai-Kiji, Tuba-Kiji, Khakas-Kiji etc.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 24, 2008 0:37:00 GMT 3
Yes, that's what I meant (was too lazy to specify the dialects ;D), thanx for the add
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Post by Bor Chono on Oct 28, 2008 19:09:35 GMT 3
In Mongolian lang "people" is "Humuus" or "Ard olon" or "Ard irged" and rarely "Ulus amitan" ;D "Humuus"=people "Ard olon"=behind many "Ard irged"=behind citizens "Ulus amitan"=State animal =Mountains & Rivers & Alive creatures. Mostly it is "Ard"=behind. Because when you speak about your family they appear to be "behind" you. ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 29, 2008 1:11:26 GMT 3
That's the same in Turkic "Art" or "Ard" means "back" ;D
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Attila
Är
History Enthusiast
Posts: 48
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Post by Attila on Oct 29, 2008 5:23:11 GMT 3
That's the same in Turkic "Art" or "Ard" means "back" ;D Seeing how similar the Turkic and Mongol languages were/are, I think we can conclude that they are related as "distant cousins."
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