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Post by greathun on Jul 13, 2008 1:49:12 GMT 3
So uyghurs were under Dzengars' rule then? It's confusing because some uyghurs told me they had an independant nation for hundreds of years until the chinese invasion in the 1950's. sounds like Dzungars are the true natives at East Turkistan(Xinjiang). So how uyghurs ended up as the main occupants of that land after Dzengars? Nope, they were also just occupiers in Eastern Turkistan for some time. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Jul 13, 2008 11:54:50 GMT 3
No, both Dzungars and Uyghurs are natives of this land I believe. Dzungars to the north, Uyghurs to the south. The land was ravaged by disease and extermination however, the Qing Emperor repopulated the area it seems (but I don't know who he repopulated the area with, or what the Uyghurs were doing during these times). Either way, Dzungar descendants and Uyghurs have to work together. Kashgaria or Dzungaria doesn't matter to me, we have a real common enemy. Chinamen who call themselves legitimate to this land after INHERITING it from the Manchus... Pffft
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 13, 2008 14:21:50 GMT 3
So uyghurs were under Dzengars' rule then? It's confusing because some uyghurs told me they had an independant nation for hundreds of years until the chinese invasion in the 1950's.  |
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 13, 2008 15:33:44 GMT 3
Chinamen who call themselves legitimate to this land after INHERITING it from the Manchus... Pffft Sinkiang was independent during ww2, with close ties to both Soviet Union and Japan, however Mao (=Chinese Army) invaded it like Tibet. |
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Post by nanman on Jul 13, 2008 18:01:58 GMT 3
It was somewhat unfortunate that in 1912 when the Qing Dynasty ruling China collapse that instead of all the Qing's subjects going there separate ways, certains powerful elements of the revolutionary movement would not let go.
If we could have gone our separate ways while watching each other's back over western imperialism, perhaps we will all be better off today whether ideologically or economically etc.
After 1912, the situation lingered on and many times, notably 1933, ET did form and technically ceded with some degree of Soviet support. A combination of threat from Soviet annexation, disunity and economic conditions made the going very hard. In 1949 when the communists took power in China they just charged in waving their guns and seized it.
There was a window of opportunity in 89 but it was not to be. Now, we live in hope that things will improve for everyone. Globalised politics has made the stance of the Chinese even harder because although many do understand some issues surrounding ET's situation but many that I have spoken to end up saying "But we can't look like we are weak in the eyes of the world, US, the west etc". This mental madness continues.
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Post by greathun on Jul 13, 2008 18:41:15 GMT 3
Even more confusing, I thought Sinkiang was part of independant Tibet according to Tibetan Exile Government?  Chinamen who call themselves legitimate to this land after INHERITING it from the Manchus... Pffft Sinkiang was independent during ww2, with close ties to both Soviet Union and Japan, however Mao (=Chinese Army) invaded it like Tibet. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 13, 2008 19:55:19 GMT 3
No, it wasn't (it was controlled by the Tibetans for some time during the Early Medieval times, that's all).
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Post by sarmat on Jul 14, 2008 4:47:21 GMT 3
Chinamen who call themselves legitimate to this land after INHERITING it from the Manchus... Pffft Sinkiang was independent during ww2, with close ties to both Soviet Union and Japan, however Mao (=Chinese Army) invaded it like Tibet. Not really. Xinjiang was actually most of the time ruled by the Chinese warlord Sheng Shicai (he was of Manchu origin BTW). Nevertheless, Xinjiang all that time was under the complete control of ethnic Chinese and for some time was even a Soviet puppet state. Only a small region in Xinjiang which rebelled in 1944 and called itself East Turkestan Republic was ruled by the local Turks. However, this state was able to survive only due to the support of the USSR. And was relatively fast liquidated in 1949 as soon as Mao Zedong regained the Soviet trust. |
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 14, 2008 20:08:17 GMT 3
yeah i know, thats what i said, i didn't implied that Sinkiang was native ruled but it was definately not under central government control....
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pantigin
Tudun
Without Uighurs, there was no Mahmud and without him, there is no complete stories of Turks !
Posts: 164
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Post by pantigin on Jul 14, 2008 21:45:51 GMT 3
ignorant talkers...... go ahead
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 17, 2008 18:55:29 GMT 3
 Johan Gustaf Renat's map of Dzungaria, ca 1744 ignorant talkers...... go ahead To who did you say this? |
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Post by greathun on Jul 26, 2008 22:34:31 GMT 3
OK, I did some reading on this topic. Sounds like there were provinces not under the central government control or only nominal control in China at that time. It was a result of the collapse of the Qing Dynasty. Don't like China's occuption of tibet but the claim of tibet on Sinkiang is kind of out of wack also. yeah i know, thats what i said, i didn't implied that Sinkiang was native ruled but it was definately not under central government control.... |
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Post by Asparuh on Feb 19, 2010 0:38:23 GMT 3
Ok,This topic is particurarly interesting,because of the Dzungars.
Actually the Dzungars are mentioned in the movie - Nomad The Warrior .
What are they ? A Turkish tribe claiming to have control over Kazakstan or what.
Seems like it was something like that,or they wanted to run over and conquer the Kazaks.
The arquitecture,armour,horses ,etc have a clear chinese influence for my opinion.
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Post by sarmat on Feb 19, 2010 1:48:18 GMT 3
Why didn't you try to research more on our forum? We already had a few discussions regarding Jungars/Oirats/Kalmyks.
They were Mongolic people who created the last strong nomadic empire in the area that is now Western China (Xinjiang) (Eastern Turkestan) and Eastern Kazakhstan.
They descendants still live in Russia and have their own Kalmyk autonomous republic. They are the only people in Europe who practice Buddhism as their native religion.
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Post by Asparuh on Feb 20, 2010 0:59:46 GMT 3
Hm,Interesting.Thanks.
I found sources that the Bulgar clan DULO has his origins in Dzungaria.
These guys were pretty good warriors too,They almost replaced the Kazaks from their territory.
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sounds like Dzungars are the true natives at East Turkistan(Xinjiang). So how uyghurs ended up as the main occupants of that land after Dzengars?
