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Post by asiaticus on Sept 10, 2006 10:12:05 GMT 3
There is a list of 19 Xiongnu tribes in Jinshu 97: 2549-2550 , Zhonghua shuju ed.. Maybe you need Arial Unicode MS or Lucida sans unicode to visualize chinese characters.The Jinshu says (traduction mine) : "Tose (tribes) who entered to live inside the (chinese) border were: The ÍÀ ¸÷ Chuge tribe ·N, the Xianzhi tribe õr Ö§, the Koutou ¿Ü î^, the Wutan žõ ×T, the Chile ³à ÀÕ (in Chinese = red reins) , the Hanzhi º´ òÎ, the Heilang ºÚ ÀÇ (Chinese: = Black wolves"), the Chisha ³à ɳ (Ch. = Red sands) , the Yupi (or Yubing) ôd í@, the Weisuo ή ɯ, the Tutong (bald boys) ¶d ͯ, the Bomie ²ª Ãï, the Qiangqu Ǽ Çü, the Helai ÙR Ù‡, the Zhongqi çŠ Ú– , the Dalou (Ch. Great building) ´ó ˜Ç, the Yongqu Óº Çü, the Zhenshu Õæ ˜ä , the LijieÁ¦ ôÉ " According myself the Chile maybe the Chile or Tiele (= Gaoche Dingling) ; the Qiangqu bring similarity in name to Kangju (as noted before by Pulleyblank) and the Yongqu, always according myself, can be the * Onogur . We find here so a real link to the Proto-Bulgars in the West and to the Huns. Loriano Belluomini, Italy.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 10, 2006 10:55:31 GMT 3
I always thought that there were 24 Xiongnu tribes. I'll check that info.
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Post by asiaticus on Sept 10, 2006 14:23:34 GMT 3
I think this is not correct. There were 24 d¨¤ch¨¦n , i.e. 24 great ministers or officials that were chosen between relatives of Chanyu or kindred tribes. But these 24 dachen were not tribal headmen. Greetings Loriano
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 10, 2006 19:09:18 GMT 3
These 19 tribes were the ones who were settled down in Northern China. But the Xiongnu Empire of the periods of Modu Chanyu and Laoshang Chanyu (first quarter of the 2nd century BC) ruled over 26 subject peoples.
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Post by asiaticus on Sept 10, 2006 22:49:03 GMT 3
This is correct. Shiji 110: 2896 says that the Xiongnu "Wise king of the Right wiped out the Yuezhi, beheading them and subduing them. Furthermore he pacified (¶¨ ) Loulan, Wusun and Hujie with 26 near States; everyone of these now consider oneself as Xiongnu" . From this we learn that these countries were not Xiongnu. Maybe that in the course of time someone of these was integrated in the Xiongnu confederation, but strictly speaking they were not Xiongnu. Maybe that the 19 tribes of the third century A.D. were not exactly the same as those of 2nd century B.C. , but the only document we have it is Jinshu 97 and we have to stay with this.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 11, 2006 1:15:49 GMT 3
Yes, by the late 2nd-early 3rd century AD, those tribes listed in Jinshu had become a part of the original Xiongnu people, not their subjects like the Dingling or the Jiangun
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