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Post by massaget on Nov 17, 2011 21:21:15 GMT 3
Id like to add some new DNA research results of Szeged University wich compares present and ancient Magyar samples with present countries dna map of eurasia.
Present Hungarian sample similar the most with Estonia, then Sardinia (!?), Sicily (!?), Bulgaria, Croatia, Bosnia and the Czech republic.
Ancient samples from 9th century graves, are the most similar with present day Finnland, North Ossetia, The Komi tribe in Russia, then Turkish.
I have no clue about the similarity with Sardinia and Sicily in present sample, also North Ossetia when comparing the ancient's dna with present countries.
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Post by Ardavarz on Nov 18, 2011 1:31:30 GMT 3
Interesting...
And in that regard I remember I've came across some suggestions trying to make a connection between Székelys and ancient Sicilians based on identical spelling of their names in Latin (Seculi) and the vague similarity between Rovas writing and the ancient Italian alphabets. However, I doubt there is any direct relation.
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Post by massaget on Nov 28, 2011 12:26:47 GMT 3
This is the only large resolution map of the steppe world from 1165 by Arabian travaller Al Idrisi www.bigmapblog.com/2011/idrisis-tabula-rogeriana-world-map-reproduction/You can see a tribe called Mazgar south to the Ural mountains. (east is on the left bottom side of this old map, while west is on the right) What do you think could they be thos Magyar tribes who left behind in Asia or someone else ? |
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Post by massaget on Nov 28, 2011 13:28:52 GMT 3
This is a german copy of the original map, so it contains some german words too.
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Post by massaget on Nov 28, 2011 15:37:17 GMT 3
Ardavarz : Is there any volga bulgarian source unless the much disputed djagfar tarihi wich survived the centuries ? Let me know a link if there is such.
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Post by Ardavarz on Nov 29, 2011 3:07:38 GMT 3
Ardavarz : Is there any volga bulgarian source unless the much disputed djagfar tarihi wich survived the centuries ? Let me know a link if there is such. What kind of sources and from which period? Many books written in Arabic script were destroyed during Soviet era. Thus "Jagfar Tarihi" is a collection of chronicles supposedly from 17th century, but containing also texts from as early as 13th century (like "Gazi Baraj Tarihi") and quotes from even earlier works like Yakub ibn Nugman's "Täwarihï Bulgharia" ("History of Bulgar", cited also by Abu Hamid al-Garnati). Its authenticity is disputable because it has survived only as Russian translation from before WWII. Same is the case with another still unpiblished collection called "Nariman Tarihi" (14 - 18 century) and the mythological poem "Shan kïzï dastanï" (assigned to 9th century) and the epic "Chulman Tolgau". (I am not sure whether the ethnographic treatise "Hon Kitabï" of 12th century poet Kul Gali fragments from which were published together with Jagfar's collection belongs to it or it has existed as independent book). Still, there exist also texts survived as originals - there are poems, medical, religious and philosophical works, but I don't know how many of them are available and properly studied. The earliest is probably Kul Gali's poem "Qïssa-i Yusuf" ("Tale of Joseph", a Russian translation of it was published in 1985), but there can be others too of which I am not aware. |
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Post by massaget on Jan 7, 2012 13:26:53 GMT 3
What do you think of this ancient stone cross. Does the motivs familiar to anyone ? s79.freeblog.hu/tags/p%C3%A1los/Its found close to that place in Pilis mountain where Attila's and Arpad's palace is supposed to be. |
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Post by Asparuh on Jan 8, 2012 1:49:16 GMT 3
The stone is very interesting.
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Post by massaget on Jan 8, 2012 15:25:39 GMT 3
It can be both the Jerusalem or the Byzantine cross.
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Post by sarmat on Jan 8, 2012 17:45:20 GMT 3
Hmmm... I think there are reasonable explanations for both. I have no clue about the similarity with Sardinia and Sicily in present sample Common European genetic substratum. Apparently, pre-Magyar inhabitants of Hungary shared similar DNA to other Europeans. It probably even comes back from the pre-Indoeuropean DNA pool. , also North Ossetia when comparing the ancient's dna with present countries. That's not surprising at all either. North Ossetians are believed to be ancestors of Scytho-Sarmatians and Alans that also were a part of Magyar ethnogenesis. Some Hungarian legends actually have visible parallels in Ossetian Nart epics. Moreover, even according to Hungarian legendary history Magyars originate from Hunor and Magor and daughters of Alanic prince Dulo. |
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Post by Ardavarz on Jan 9, 2012 3:40:19 GMT 3
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Post by massaget on Jan 9, 2012 13:03:31 GMT 3
Yes the ornaments are closest to the ancient Manichean cross style. The problem is that there is no other known memories of Manicheanism in hungary. Huns were partly christians either, but I dont know about Manicheanism among them.
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Post by sarmat on Jan 9, 2012 17:33:20 GMT 3
Could it be that some Bogomils escaped to Hungary from the Balkans?
There are also indications of possible Nestorian christians among Cumans, I don't think we should discard the possibility that there could have been some Manicheans among them too..
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Post by massaget on Jan 9, 2012 18:44:52 GMT 3
Nope, not to that territory. The cumans lived in large blocks far away from Pilis mountains.
Its habitated since the roman era, but its surely not a roman cross. The stone is from a nearby mountain. The following tribes lived nearby.
The roman settlement of Sicambria.
The hunnic capital of Attila.
From 896 til the 13th century the Hungarian capital stood somewhere nearby.
There is some sort of manichean effect on avar christianity according to sources, so I wouldnt exclude the avars either.
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Post by sarmat on Jan 9, 2012 22:12:24 GMT 3
Yes, that is possible too.
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