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Post by Temüjin on May 14, 2007 18:40:05 GMT 3
he was not nomadic and most of his empire was sendentary, actually he was ruler of Iran which is not a Steppe empire.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 14, 2007 20:11:37 GMT 3
I agree.
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Post by nisse on May 14, 2007 20:39:15 GMT 3
so was alp arslan and tughrul beg, they ruled as sedentary , that doesnt make them rulers or Iran, and many others,
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 14, 2007 20:47:56 GMT 3
But they had nomadic backgrounds and Toghrïl Bäg himself was a nomad rom birth. They relied mostly on nomadic warriors (the sedentary Ghulām guards were established only after 1040).
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Post by nisse on May 14, 2007 20:55:11 GMT 3
most of turks today are sedentary , that doesnt make them less turksih for that , all that matters is that he was a turk and therefore a part of central asian history , I hope you are not like the ones , the persian who thinks him as a Iranian, are you calling him a iranian   |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 14, 2007 21:20:16 GMT 3
No, we all know that he was a sedentary Turk. But he was not a part of the steppe region.
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Post by nisse on May 15, 2007 2:42:11 GMT 3
well , I have been trying to explain to you , he wasnt from Iran, he was from southern Turkmenistan which lays in Iran now, , southern turkmenistan is also steppe, In turkmen we call it turkmensahra, which means the desert of the turkmens
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 16, 2007 0:02:37 GMT 3
But the Steppe Zone does not include Transoxiana, Yedisu (Semirechje), Khorâsân, Tianshan, etc; or in modern terms, it does not include Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and the southern parts of Kazakstan.
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Post by nisse on May 16, 2007 1:28:32 GMT 3
how cant turkmenistan be count as steppe , since the 550 bc or even earlier there have been steppe people living there, turkmens is originally steppe people that makes them qualify as steppe, I dont det either why not kyrgyzstan isnt included in he steppe , it is the same reason for them to
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 17, 2007 23:39:22 GMT 3
According to the Osprey book of "Mounted Archers of the Steppe 600 BC-AD 1300", the Steppe is the area shaded in this map:  But if you mean Inner Asia or Inner/Central Eurasia, than the area is of course wider, and includes most of Turkistan too:  |
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Post by nisse on May 18, 2007 0:06:59 GMT 3
what you are showing is the climate where there is steppe
thats doesnt mean that the actually steppe is limitied to what you are showing which is again a climate of steppe and not the truth steppe
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 18, 2007 1:02:46 GMT 3
Well if you are talking about Central/Inner Asia/Eurasia, than yes of course Turkistan is a part of that.
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Post by nisse on May 18, 2007 1:51:58 GMT 3
soo you agree with me at last
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Post by naaya on Jul 23, 2007 1:08:41 GMT 3
okey the most respected Chingis khan generals
* Jebe (zev) - (nickname meaning "the Arrow"), was one of the four "dogs of war". After surrendering to Temujin, Jebe made several accomplishments, including destroying Kuchlug's Kara-Khitai and defeating the Kievan Rus' in several battles, expanding the Mongol Empire considerably.
* Subutai (subedei) - He was one of the four "dogs of war". One of the most prominent generals from the others, a brilliant strategist and good friend of Genghis Khan and his sons, he accompanied Jebe in his battles against Kara-Khitai and the Kievan Rus' and in the conquest of eastern and central Europe after Genghis Khan with his grandson Batu Khan.
* Muqali (muhulai) - Joined before the defeat of Jamuqa. One of the four "talented men" of Chingis Khan. Made the general of left-wing tumen. During Chingis Khan's conquest of Khwarezmid Empire, Muqali was the supreme commander of all Mongol forces in Jin China.
* Boorchu (boorch) - One of the four "talented men" of Chingis Khan, Borchu joined as one of the earliest generals of Chingis Khan. He was made the general of right-wing tumen and was revered as a tough commander with great leadership skills.
* Borokhul - One of the four "talented men" of Chingis Khan, Borokhul defected from Jamuqa (Jamuuh).
* Chilaun - One of the four "talented men" of Chingis Khan, Chilaun's family helped Temujin when he was captured by the Tai'chuids.
* Qubilai (Hubilai)- He was one of the four "dogs of war".
* Jelme (Zelme)- Another early general of Chingis Khan. He was one of the four "dogs of war" and was the commander of the personal guard of Chingis Khan
* Naaya janjin - another general Of Chingis khan. (the middle army general)
*Yesugei Baatar (baghatur) (Yesügei, Yesükhei) was Chingis Khan's father. Yesügei was the son of Bartan-Baghatur, who was the son of Qabul Khan, who was recognized as a Khagan by the Jin Dynasty. Qabul Khagan was, in turn, the grandson of the Mongol chief Qaidu, the first to try to unite all of the Mongols.
Yesugei was chief of the Kiyad clan.
*Jamuqa (could also be spelled Jamuka, Djamugha or Yamuqa or similar) was a Mongol military and political leader and the chief rival to Temüjin, later Genghis Khan, in the unification of the Mongol tribes. Born in the Jadirat, a sub-tribe of the Mongols, Jamuqa was a childhood friend and a blood brother to Temüjin.
When Borte, wife of Temujin, was abducted by the Merkit tribe, Wang Khan, Jamuqa and Temüjin combined forces against the Merkits to recover her.
In 1201, a khuriltai elected Jamuqa as Gur Khan, universal ruler, a title used by the rulers of the Kara-Khitan Khanate. Jamuqa's assumption of this title was the final breach between Temüjin and Jamuqa, leading Temüjin to form a coalition of tribes to oppose him.
Jamuqa was less successful in coalition-building because, unlike Temüjin, he maintained traditional divisions between tribes in his forces and assigned commands by hereditary rank rather than merit. In particular, Jamuqa did not recruit shepherds who lacked tribal status in the Mongol tradition. This allowed Temüjin to recover from a series of military defeats inflicted by Jamuqa and to emerge victorious. It was also believed that Jamuqa was a harsh and unforgiving man, and that he inherited his leadership by murdering his family.[citation needed]
Jamuqa was eventually betrayed to Temüjin by his followers in 1206. Temüjin executed Jamuqa's betrayers on the principle that betrayal merits the harshest punishment. The Secret History of the Mongols states that Temüjin offered renewal of their brotherhood, but Jamuqa insisted that just as there was room for only one sun in the sky, there was room only for one Mongol lord. So he asked to be executed by a noble death without spilling blood. His request was granted by having his back broken.
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