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Post by Temüjin on Apr 4, 2007 22:22:12 GMT 3
someone claimed the capital of the Golden Horde did not exist, and indeed the wikipedia article says the existence of Sarai-Berqe is disputed. well, he also claimed Sarai means barn in Russian and the Golden Horde occupation of Russia did never existed but was in fact just "medieval propaganda"...  anyways, is there really no Archaeological proove of either one of the Sarais? |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 6, 2007 2:15:00 GMT 3
Sounds very weird  The word Saray comes from the Persian word Sarây meaning "Palace". |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Apr 7, 2007 19:14:19 GMT 3
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Apr 7, 2007 19:39:56 GMT 3
There were two cities of Saray, which were successively the capital of the khans of the Golden Horde: Old Saray (Saray-al-Maqrus, Saray-Batu), situated near the modern village of Selitrennnoe in Astrakhan region. New Saray (Saray-al-Jadid, Saray-Berke), which embraced the modern town of Tsarev, ruins of which extend over a distance of more than forty miles, and cover an area of over twenty square miles. In Kazakstan, along Ural river, there're well preserved ruins of Sarayşıq (Small Saray), one of the biggest cities of the Golden Horde.   |
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Post by Temüjin on Apr 8, 2007 0:42:40 GMT 3
thank you, this will help me.  |
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Post by Atabeg on Apr 27, 2007 23:33:26 GMT 3
When was bahçe saray established at the Krim khanate periode or during the goldenhorde(aren't those to the same anyway?)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 29, 2007 22:34:15 GMT 3
No, the Khanate of Crimea, along with other khanates like Qazan, Sibir and Astrakhan, was established whilethe Golden Horde was breaking into pieces.
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Post by Temüjin on Apr 29, 2007 23:53:31 GMT 3
the Sibir Khanate did already exist before the Golden Horde broke apart.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Apr 30, 2007 22:13:49 GMT 3
the Sibir Khanate did already exist before the Golden Horde broke apart. Sibir khanate was established by Mahmet khan in 1495 when the Tumen khan Ibak was murdered. Mahmet was the descendant of Taybuga. Khanate's name derived from the capital Sibir (also known as Qashliq). This happened after the Golden Horde disintegration. Before 1495, the lands of Sibir khanate were known as "Ibir" and were a part of Jochi ulus, Shayban ulus, and Tumen khanate. |
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Post by Temüjin on May 1, 2007 20:50:58 GMT 3
well ok, but as i understood the Sibir Khanate and its predecessor where never part of the Golden Horde.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on May 2, 2007 6:50:43 GMT 3
as i understood the Sibir Khanate and its predecessor where never part of the Golden Horde. Yes, they were. The territory of Golden Horde extended to the Irtysh basin and lower Ob' river (Western Siberia).  Quote from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (Bolshaya Sovetskaya Entsiklopediya): Siberian khanate, Siberian yurt, Siberian kingdom, feudal state, which emerged at the end of 15 cent. In 13-14 cent, the territory of the future Siberian khanate under the name "Ibir'" was a part of Jochi ulus, Sheyban ulus and Tumen khanate.www.oval.ru/enc/65452.html |
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Post by Temüjin on May 2, 2007 21:24:55 GMT 3
mmh ok
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Post by naaya on Jul 22, 2007 20:08:32 GMT 3
yes... okey lets talk about great Bat khan the 1st son of zuchi khan
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The word Saray comes from the Persian word Sarây meaning "Palace".
