|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 13, 2011 4:29:17 GMT 3
|
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 13, 2011 15:12:01 GMT 3
Unfortunately, there are no records of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 13, 2011 15:46:31 GMT 3
Unfortunately, there are no records of them. Hmm  then must i make a list for the mod game History of the steppe MOD ( Patch ) game for Medieval Total War. i write by the rulers, family tree and generals name list. that list not true is. thank you..  |
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 13, 2011 20:21:56 GMT 3
About some Kyrgyzes Khan's:  - Manas (5th century ) First and Greatest Kyrgyz Khan - Semetei - Descendant of Manas Khan - Seitek - Descendant of Manas Khan 692-711 Barsbeg ( under Kök-Türk Khaganate was he a Bek of the Kyrgyzes ) 711-731 Tardush Inanchu Chur ( under Kök-Türk Khaganate was he a Bek of the Kyrgyzes ) 840-847 Jaglaqar ( from Tiele Tribe ) Free Kyrgyzes Khanate 890-899 Kokotoy ( from Tiele Tribe ) Free Kyrgyzes Khanate -1200 Urus Inal ( under Qara-Qitai Khanate Was he Leader of the Kyryzes ) And later was the Kyrgyzes under Mongols and Later became Qara-Qyrqyzes ( Kara-Kyrgyzes ) |
|
|
|
Post by Kilij Arslan on Apr 13, 2011 21:19:34 GMT 3
Hmm, btw Jaglaqar was one of the Uyghur tribes, wasn't it?
|
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 13, 2011 22:13:44 GMT 3
Hmm, btw Jaglaqar was one of the Uyghur tribes, wasn't it? What I founded in my books about kyrgyzes history 840-847 Jaglaqar ( from Tiele Tribe ) Free Kyrgyzes Khanate 890-899 Kokotoy ( from Tiele Tribe ) Free Kyrgyzes Khanate Jaglaqar and Kokotoy were descendants of the Tiele Tribe and from 840 to 900's Century was Kyrgyzes ruled from Tiele Tribes. Maybe Tiele Tribes was one of the Sub-Tribes of the Uighurs. We can Research that, But Jaglaqar and Kokotoy was the Rulers of the Kyrgyzes, But they were from Tiele Tribe not from a Kyrgyzes Tribe.  |
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 14, 2011 2:27:59 GMT 3
I founded one he became after Kokotoy Khan 899- Bög-Müren ( from Tiele Tribe ) Free Kyrgyzes Khanate |
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 14, 2011 2:54:20 GMT 3
Goodnews I founded much information about family tree I posted here if i finished my work |
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 14, 2011 3:24:00 GMT 3
On the contrary, the Uyghurs were a part of the Tie-le 鐵勒 tribes.
|
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 14, 2011 4:07:21 GMT 3
On the contrary, the Uyghurs were a part of the Tie-le 鐵勒 tribes. So then the Rulers of the Kyrgyzes in the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th centuries were too from Tiele Tribes. |
|
|
|
Post by benzin on Apr 14, 2011 12:00:24 GMT 3
I found this in Djagfar Tarihi about the Kyrgyzes :
Once in the Turkestan (Kazakhstan) a tribe of the southern Sakas, Massagets (Masguts) suddenly attacked the central Sakas, the Sarmatians (Chirmyshes). All Chirmyshes were annihilated, but the leader of the Sarmatians Tamyr-bika has had time before her death to hide the baby, her son, in hollow of a tree. The boy was found and brought up by the Türks. They called him Kypchak “From the tree hollow“. Kypchak took 40 Türkic maids as his wives, and his children from them have established 40 clans of the Türkic-lingual Sakas. They began to be called “Kyrgyzes“ (i.e.“forty girls“ -in memory of the Kypchak's forty wives) or “Kypchaks“...
|
|
|
|
Post by hjernespiser on Apr 14, 2011 19:07:45 GMT 3
Isn't Djagfar Tarihi of questionable repute?
Kyrgyz come originally from the upper waters of the Yenisei, where the name is still found.
|
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 14, 2011 20:30:08 GMT 3
have Djagfar tarihi then a strong theory for this ? as today language of kyrgyzes is too close to Kypchak language yes. But that will not say that this theory his 100% True is.. kyrgyz mean in some theory forty girls and in some theory say that kirk-iz mean ( iz like uz by oghuzes ) is but this can we days long discussion here. we are ural-altaic peoples right ? come on guys we are here more then 10 peoples so i see online, we can maybe what find more things about Kyrgyzes. I do my best I founded epic story of Manas I needed after Manas after Kökötöy and his Son Bög ( Bok, Mok, Mök ) Murun, Müren.. who became after Bök-Müren ?? Benzin send a link so I can check Djagfarish theory. hjernespiser, have right first Kyrgyzes became from Yenisei. That is mostly storngest theory today. |
|
|
|
Post by Ardavarz on Apr 15, 2011 2:05:45 GMT 3
have Djagfar tarihi then a strong theory for this ? as today language of kyrgyzes is too close to Kypchak language yes. But that will not say that this theory his 100% True is.. kyrgyz mean in some theory forty girls and in some theory say that kirk-iz mean ( iz like uz by oghuzes ) is but this can we days long discussion here. we are ural-altaic peoples right ? come on guys we are here more then 10 peoples so i see online, we can maybe what find more things about Kyrgyzes. I do my best I founded epic story of Manas I needed after Manas after Kökötöy and his Son Bög ( Bok, Mok, Mök ) Murun, Müren.. who became after Bök-Müren ?? Benzin send a link so I can check Djagfarish theory. hjernespiser, have right first Kyrgyzes became from Yenisei. That is mostly storngest theory today. This is not a theory, just a legend. In my opinion it's more a speculation based on folk etymologies and myths. This passage can be found here: s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Djagfar_Tarihi/Volume3/DjagfarTarihiV3P3En.htm (s.v. Legend about the origin of the name "Kypchak"). Still here this is a retold story, not translation of the original text, so already a third (if not fourth) hand interpretation. Here is another legend, at least allegedly translated from the original: "Türe gave me much information also about Kypchaks. So, he wrote that Kypchaks or, more precisely, Kyrgyzes, divided into western and eastern parts. The western part, intermixed with the remains of the Saklanian Kypchaks [Scythians], had a look of light-eyed and fair-haired people, and the eastern part, mixed with Kytays [Mongols], Imens [Manchurians] and Chins [Chinese], had appearance of black-eyed and dark-haired people... In the beginning the Kays [pagan Uigurs] expelled from Altai to Idjim the western Kypchaks, whom we called Kumans, that is “southern“ or “light“, to differentiate them from the eastern branch. And then Kytays captured the whole Khin and slaughtered a lot of eastern Kypchaks or Oimeks..." (quoted from: s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Djagfar_Tarihi/Volume3/DjagfarTarihiV3P2En.htm)(in Russian: s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Djagfar_Tarihi/Volume3/DjagfarTarihiV3P2Ru.htm)Keep in mind that some names and ethnonyms in these texts not everywhere have the same meaning and in many cases not correspond to our understanding of them (f.e. "Turks" often means "Mongols", while the Turks are called "Syrs" etc.). |
|
|
|
Post by boztorgaikhan on Apr 15, 2011 12:21:47 GMT 3
Thanks For the Links of Djagfarish Tarih.
But about that Kyrgyz mean Fortly Girls that can we days long discussion here, because:
Kyrgyz means:
There are several etymological theories on the ethnonym "Kyrgyz."
The word "Kyrgyz" is derived from the Turkic word "forty", with -Iz being an old plural suffix, referring to a collection of forty tribes.
Kyrgyz also means "imperishable", "inextinguishable", "immortal", "unconquerable" or "undefeatable", presumably referring to the epic hero Manas who, as legend has it, unified undefeated forty tribes against the Khitans. This version has an obvious popular appreciation. Historical evidence for many conflicts with other peoples also supports this theory. The Chinese transcription "Tse-gu" (Gekun, Jiankun) allows to restore the pronunciation of the ethnonym as Kirkut (Kirgut) and Kirkur (Kirgur). Both forms go back to the earliest variation Kirkün (Chinese Tszyan-kun) of the term "Kyrgyz" meaning "Field People", "Field Huns". The term Kirkün went through a notable evolution: Kirkün (Kirgün) = Kirkut (Kirgut) = Kirkur (Kirkor, Kirgur) = Kyrkyz (Kyrgyz). The evolution is traced well chronologically. The semantic connection between kün (gün) and gür is a chronologically consecutive development of the concept kün = "female progenitor" = her offsprings = "tribe" = "a people" at the last stage coincides with the gür = "people", like in the Khitan title Gurkhan. Application of affixes of plurality "t" - "r" - "z" in the ethnonym Kirkun shaded the initial sound, and then also the meaning, making its roots enigmatic. By the Mongol epoch, the initial meaning of the word Kirkun was already lost, evidenced by differing readings of the earlier reductions of the Uanshi. The change of ethnonym produced a new version of an origin, and the memory about their steppe motherland, recorded in Uanshi, survived only as a recollection of the initial birthplace of forty women. Subsequently, however, that recollection was also lost. Kir-kis means "leader of the people with boars totem". kis,kas[-er],khiz,khuz, khi, khion (hunn) means boar.
In the 18th and 19th century European writers used the word "Kirghiz" (the early Anglicized form of the contemporary Russian "киргизы") to refer not only to the people we now know as Kyrgyz, but also to their more numerous northern relatives, the Kazakhs. When distinction had to be made, more specific terms were used: Burut (буруты), Kara-Kirghiz (кара-киргизы) or "Dikokamenni Kirghiz" (дикокаменные киргизы) for the Kyrgyz proper, and Koisaks for the Kazakhs.
Origin of the Kyrgyzes:
The early Kyrgyz people, known as Yenisei Kyrgyz (аpproximately 300,000 Yenisei Kyrgyzes survived in the Tuva depression until present) or Xiajiasi, first appear in written records in the Chinese annals of the Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian (compiled 109 BC to 91 BC), as Gekun or Jiankun.
The Middle Age Chinese composition "Tanghuiyao" of the 8-10th century transcribed the name "Kyrgyz" Tsze-gu (Kirgut), and their tamga was depicted as identical to the tamga of present day Kyrgyz tribes Azyk, Bugu, Cherik, Sary Bagysh and few others. According to recent historical findings, Kyrgyz history dates back to 201 BC.[citation needed] The Yenisei Kyrgyz lived in the upper Yenisey River valley, central Siberia. Yenisei Kyrgyzes in the Late Antique times were a part of the Tiele tribes. Later, in the Early Middle Age, Yenisei Kyrgyzes were under the rule of Göktürk Kaganate and Uigur Kaganate. In 840 a revolt led by Yenisei Kyrgyzes brought down the Uigur Kaganate, and brought the Yenisei Kyrgyzes to a dominating position in the former Turkic Kaganate. With the rise to power, the center of the Kyrgyz Kaganate moved to Jeti-su, and brought about a spread south of the Kyrgyz people, to reach Tian Shan mountains and Eastern Turkestan, bringing them immediately to the borders of China and Tibet. By the 16th century the carriers of the ethnonym "Kirgiz" lived in South Siberia, Eastern Turkestan, Tian Shan, Pamir-Alay, Middle Asia, Urals (among Bashkorts), in Kazakhstan. In the Tian Shan and Eastern Turkestan area, the term "Kyrgyz" retained its unifying political designation, and became a general ethnonym for the Yenisei Kirgizes and aboriginal Turkic tribes that presently constitute the Kyrgyz population. Though it is obviously impossible to directly identify the Yenisei and Tien Shan Kyrgyzes, a trace of their ethnogenetical connections is apparent in archaeology, history, language and ethnography. A majority of modern researchers came to the conclusion that the ancestors of the southern Kyrgyz tribes had their origin in the most ancient tribal unions of Sakas and Usuns, Dinlins and Huns.
Also, there follow from the oldest notes about the Kyrgyz that the definite mention of Kyrgyz ethnonym originates from 6th century. There is certain probability that there was relation between Kyrgyz and Gegunese already in 2nd century BC, next, between Kyrgyz and Khakases since 6th century A.D., but there is quite missing a unique mention. The Kyrgyz as ethnic group are mentioned quite unambiguously in the time of Genghis Khan rule (1162–1227), when their name replaces the former name Khakas.
There is not a Strong theory.
But Brothers come on in place this discussions can we find the Khagans of the Kyrgyzes.
I find here what look:
Kyrgyzes History:
To the Uighurs - 744-840
TIEHLE:
Jaglaqar - 840-847
Kokotoy - ?? late 800's ?
Mök-Mürün - 800's ?-??.
Khan Kökötöy and his Son: Bög-Müren ( Mök-Mürün )
To the Qara Khitai - 10th cent. ? -1218
CAKIP KHAN-Çiirçi Khatun ( daughter of the Aidar Khan )
CAKIP KHAN-Baq-Devlet Khatun ( second wife of CAKIP KHAN )
Bayyegit Great Kyrgyz Shaman
Manas Khan ( byname of Manas was Akpalta, his parents give that name because enemies wanted kill that child )
Manas Khan was the Son of CAKIP Khan and Çiirçi Khatun, and Grandson of Aidar Khan.
Aziz Khan and Altinay's Son Alman-Bet ( Aman-Bet ):
Alman-Bet converted to islam from Tengrism. Kökçe Khan wanted that from Alman-Bet.
Semetei, Son of Manas Khan and Kanikey Khatun.
And Semetei became a Hero as his Father Manas Khan
Seiteq Khan, Son of Semetei Khan and Ayçörek Khatun and Grandson of Manas Khan.
Kolçora ( Kölçora ) was unknown from who he son was but for most he was adopted son of Alman-Bet Khan.
Khan Kökötöy and his Son: Bög-Müren ( Mök-Mürün )
|
|
then must i make a list for the mod game History of the steppe MOD ( Patch ) game for Medieval Total War.
