what if...?(speculation)

[ivan55599]

What if mongols could have invaded into europe? what if Ögödei wouldnt die at 1241? how far they could have moved? if templars were europe's best defence in battle of the Sajó River and in other eastern european kingdoms, then whole europe would have been doomed. but how pope and other kings would have been reacted? what kind of culture would have been after invasion, and what kind of we would have now?

[snafu]

I think England would've been safe because the Mongols didn't do well with sea-born invasions. England would've been the Japan of the west.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I am not sure if they could have operated well in the dense forests of Central and Northern Europe.

[Subu'atai]

England would've been the Japan of the west.

Does the English Channel have typhoons? ;D
Heh regardless I'm curious really - in regards to English naval power during the 13th century. They were famed for their navy but I dunno about the 13th century?

What if mongols could have invaded into europe? what if Ögödei wouldnt die at 1241? how far they could have moved?

Not very far in my opinion, the empire was already stretched thin and historical incursions into Europe comprised of too small forces to maintain any stable political presense. Not to mention in real history - any setback on the battlefield for the Mongols seemed to have put back further invasion attempts for decades at a time - e.g. look at Bela IV's reforms with new fortifications, pushed back the next invasion for ~40 years I think (I forgot the details)

If templars were europe's best defence in battle of the Sajó River and in other eastern european kingdoms

I would say the Magyars at Sajo River were Europe's best defence on the field, outside of the field I would say Western European castles are the best defence. Templars or any armored heavy cavalry are a liability when facing a steppe army.

Then whole europe would have been doomed. but how pope and other kings would have been reacted? what kind of culture would have been after invasion, and what kind of we would have now?

Mongols like other ancient steppe powers tend to fail miserably when it comes to converting foreign populations - in fact, they actually have a problem of BECOMING AKIN to foreign populations.

There was no mass religious conversion nor any attempts to replace native culture or language. As a result, if Europe fell like other old-world nations the effect would be similar to Persia or China; it wouldn't last. Only change would probably be more or less anti-Mongol hate and mass "injection" of so-called "barbaric" genetics.

I am not sure if they could have operated well in the dense forests of Central and Northern Europe.

Me either. Mongols mobilised too few into Europe, and such harsh terrain doesn't allow for mobility which is essential for any chance of victory using such small forces. Worst yet - mountains of Switzerland! Imagine that!

It's like the Mongol invasion of Vietnam all over again; nature > armies. Darn Jungle boys! With Baloo the bear! Oh nvm heh

[ivan55599]

umm what's "akin"?

but I heard from somewhere that there were also different type grass, what mongols´ horses ate in steppe-areas.

[Subu'atai]

Akin means; alike, similar, etc.

[Temüjin]

Sept 6, 2010 15:21:15 GMT 3 Subu'atai said:

England would've been the Japan of the west.

Does the English Channel have typhoons? ;D

exactly