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Post by arnewise12 on Jun 25, 2009 14:13:11 GMT 3
Hi, I wonder where the uzbek cuisine came from, since they have been city dweller since gök turk era they should have a rich culture which they have.
there is a video at youtube which I want to share, please check it out
I think uzbek kitchen was influenced much by uygurs since uygurs are the first one tribe that still exists today in name that got settled in cities. Being settled means that u can concencrate on other things than being herder and have much more economic gain and more free time than nomads have and there fore develop a rich food culture and other things, also in city u can find ingrediens which is not availabe in the desert or steppes!
what do u guys think
besides, Uzbek cuisine is the 2nd best cuisine I have tasted ,
have u guys tried, its really delicious,
cheers
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Post by sarmat on Jun 25, 2009 22:09:10 GMT 3
City Uzbeks have been sedentary all their known history. They are direct descendants of sedentary Iranic speaking Sogdians and never were considered as "Nomads" by surrounding Nomadic tribes. Usually, they were referred as "sarts" the word with unclear ethymology but with the general meading as "sedentary people."
Soviet authorities have artificially created "Uzbek ethnicity" giving this name to both nomadic and sedentary people that lived in the territory of modern Uzbekistan.
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Post by arnewise12 on Jun 26, 2009 2:04:12 GMT 3
todays uzbek is sedentary , that doesnt make them soghdianians
I read that the first time turks in history turkified transoxiana was during gökturk era, during Great Seljuks era there was a people like u mentioned called sart which were turkified soghdianians. they spoke two languages both persians and turki,
how can they become persianised since there have been no persian control there after the Great Seljuks
Maybe great Qaghan can enlighten us on the matter
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Post by arnewise12 on Jun 26, 2009 2:04:44 GMT 3
lets get back to topic, have u tried uzbek cuisine
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Post by sarmat on Jun 26, 2009 6:14:13 GMT 3
I read that the first time turks in history turkified transoxiana was during gökturk era, during Great Seljuks era there was a people like u mentioned called sart which were turkified soghdianians. they spoke two languages both persians and turki, how can they become persianised since there have been no persian control there after the Great Seljuks Maybe great Qaghan can enlighten us on the matter Until relatively recently main Central Asian cities had predominantly Iranic speaking (Tajik) population. Most of them, however, have became "Uzbekicized" during the Soviet times. In fact, "Sarts" is still used among Kirgizs and Kazakhs as a deragatory reference to Uzbeks, usually, when they want to describe their "alien" culture.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 28, 2009 18:28:12 GMT 3
The Uzbeks are made up of three layers: the Iranic-Soghdian city-dwellers, various Turkic and Turkified city-dwellers and the nomadic Qypchaq Uzbeks that gave their name to the other sedentaries. I love Uzbek food. Here in Ankara there are two Uzbek restaurants together with one Nogai and one Kyrgyz. I sometimes visit there, bring my friends with me and eat Uzbek food
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Post by arnewise12 on Jun 28, 2009 20:08:34 GMT 3
Didnt the asian huns create a ordu i uzbekistan ? I mean since the hunnic era there have been turks in uzbekistan or ?
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Post by sarmat on Jun 28, 2009 20:39:26 GMT 3
The Uzbeks are made up of three layers: the Iranic-Soghdian city-dwellers, various Turkic and Turkified city-dwellers and the nomadic Qypchaq Uzbeks that gave their name to the other sedentaries. Exactly. And I was referring to that Iranic-Sogdian layer in my previous post. Generally, however, before Uzbek SSR was created the population there was dividied into Sarts (city dwellers) and Kipchaks (nomadic Turkic tribes and a ruling Turkic class). Soviet authorities abandoned that division and created one "Uzbek ethnicity."
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 29, 2009 12:59:35 GMT 3
Yes. Even though we know Turkic military and political presence in Transoxiana as early as the 5th-6th centuries AD (the Huns Arnewise talks about were located at Jetisu or Semirech'e), the real Turkification of the area happened during 13th-14th centuries, after Genghis Khan's conquests. Before that, the cities had were dominated by Iranics. It was during the Mongol period when the Turks started settling in the cities too.
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Post by ALTAR on Jun 29, 2009 13:28:49 GMT 3
It was during the Mongol period when the Turks started settling in the cities too. Ahmad Zeki Validi Togan claimed that there were also Turks in the cities of Transoxiana before the Mongol Period. He called them City Turks (Kent Türkleri) differing from Sarts and other native iranic elements of the region. However, I agree with you. the main Turkification of Transoxiana was in the Mongols period.
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Post by ALTAR on Jun 29, 2009 13:32:45 GMT 3
Uzbek and Uighur Culture is very close to Turks of Turkey. Also cuisine too:) Uzbek Piloov or Turkmen Piloov doesnot matter for us. Its richness and beauty of Turkish Culture among the World. All of these meals are delicious. One of my companions makes Uzbek Piloov extremely delicious although he isn't an Uzbek I should make pressure him to make it for us again ;D ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 30, 2009 1:32:53 GMT 3
Yes, there were Turks in the cities before the Mongol period too but they were not the majority, most of them being garrison troops (though we know that their numbers were quite high). I also know a few examples of civillian Turks living in those cities at that time, but the examples I saw were very few. The Mongol destruction and re-building of these cities were probably the major cause for the Turkification of this area because the native dwellers were driven away by the Mongols. Actually, he is already a member of this forum, with the nickname Qypchaq ;D Yes indeed, his Uzbek pilov is very nice, we should gather up again
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Post by arnewise12 on Jul 4, 2009 0:11:30 GMT 3
still whatever the tajiks are still are there or not area of uzbekistan was and will be part of turkic territory
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Post by sarmat on Jul 4, 2009 1:08:40 GMT 3
still whatever the tajiks are still are there or not area of uzbekistan was and will be part of turkic territory Of course. My point was just that "sedentary Sogdian heritage" of Uzbeks better explains some differences of their cuisine with the cuisine of nomadic Turks.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 4, 2009 11:34:43 GMT 3
There is still a considerable Tajik population in Uzbekistan, especially in Bukhara. All the people I met who went there told me that the Uzbek language can hardly be heard - instead, almost everyone speaks Tajik or Persian. However, other cities like Samarkand, Tashkend or Khiva have Uzbek-speaking populations.
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