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Post by nomadi on Jun 17, 2009 20:32:44 GMT 3
What is Turkic ?
Kazakhs,Uzbeks,Uighurs,Turkmens,Azeris,Kyrgyz not Turks? They says " We are not Turks,we are Turkics"
Only Oghuz Turks says " We are Turks " Turks and Turkics diffrent peoples?
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Post by sarmat on Jun 18, 2009 0:38:02 GMT 3
Turk and Turkic are synonims in English languages both can be used interchangeably. However, there is only one state that if officially named Turkey. So some people, don't want to get confused with the citizens of the Republic of Turkey and want to be called "Turkic."
"Turkic" just can be applied more generally than "Turk."
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 18, 2009 1:10:33 GMT 3
They're not exactly synonyms, but are much abused. "Turkic" is a term used in linguistics to refer to a specific family of languages. It's abused because it gets tied up in the names of ethnicities. Calling them "Turk" or "Turkish" is not satisfactory because it doesn't distinguish the differences. On the other hand, there are those that wish to not emphasize differences, but not all Turkic people call themselves "Turk". Some Tuvans I know don't understand why "Turks" don't say they're "Tuva" since the Turks are believed to have come from the Altai area. "It should be Turkish Tuva, not Tuva Turkish", they say, "You left us."
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 18, 2009 12:26:26 GMT 3
"Turk" was originally the name of only the Gokturks. After they established their empire, until the mid-8th century, everyone living under Gokturk rule was called "Turk". The Arabs, Persians and Byzantines later applied this name to all Eurasian nomads, but most of the time it was used for Turkic peoples as a general name because of their common origins, language, culture, etc. From 11th century to mid-20th century, the term "Turk" was used by almost every Eurasian culture for the Turkic peoples - at that time, people either did not differentiate the Turks of Turkey and other Turkics, or for the latter they used the name "Tatar". When Atatürk established the Republic of Turkey, "Turk" and "Turkish" became the official name used for all the citizens of the Republic of Turkey. Until the 1950s, the Anglo-Saxon speakers too continued to use the names "Turk", "Turkish" and "Turki" interchangebly without making much difference, but after that time, they started making a clear distinction between the Turks of Turkey (Turkish) and other Turk peoples (Turkic).
However, making such a distinction is available only in English (Turkish-Turkic), Russian (Turci турци-Tjurki тюрки), Chinese (Tuerqiren 土耳其人-Tujueren 突厥人), Japanese and some Turkic languages that were the former subjects of the Soviet Union (before that, they also didn't differentiate). Other languages like Turkish, Persian, Arabic, German, French, Italian, etc do not make a difference.
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Post by sarmat on Jun 18, 2009 18:08:43 GMT 3
"Turk" was originally the name of only the Gokturks. After they established their empire, until the mid-8th century, everyone living under Gokturk rule was called "Turk". The Arabs, Persians and Byzantines later applied this name to all Eurasian nomads, but most of the time it was used for Turkic peoples as a general name because of their common origins, language, culture, etc. From 11th century to mid-20th century, the term "Turk" was used by almost every Eurasian culture for the Turkic peoples - at that time, people either did not differentiate the Turks of Turkey and other Turkics, or for the latter they used the name "Tatar". When Atatürk established the Republic of Turkey, "Turk" and "Turkish" became the official name used for all the citizens of the Republic of Turkey. Until the 1950s, the Anglo-Saxon speakers too continued to use the names "Turk", "Turkish" and "Turki" interchangebly without making much difference, but after that time, they started making a clear distinction between the Turks of Turkey (Turkish) and other Turk peoples (Turkic). However, making such a distinction is available only in English (Turkish-Turkic), Russian (Turci турци-Tjurki тюрки), Chinese (Tuerqiren 土耳其人-Tujueren 突厥人), Japanese and some Turkic languages that were the former subjects of the Soviet Union (before that, they also didn't differentiate). Other languages like Turkish, Persian, Arabic, German, French, Italian, etc do not have make a difference. In Russian it's turki-òóðêè. òóðöè must be Bulgarian and other Southern Slavic languages. In fact, in Russian scientific and popular literature and language both òþðêè (tiurki) and òóðêè (turki) are used interchangeably for the meaning "Turkic". Though, former subjects of the Ottoman Empire and later citizend of the Republik of Turkey are referred only as òóðêè (turki). As for the English language publications, I noticed that Turks and even Turkish is still very often used to refer to the "Turkic" meaning as well.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 18, 2009 23:14:01 GMT 3
I'm very sorry, seems like confused it with Serbian
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 19, 2009 7:52:06 GMT 3
Sarmat, which publications? As I wrote, the term "Turkic" is primarily from linguistics and has somewhat crossed over into other disciplines. This term reflects similar terms for other language families, i.e., Ugric, Germanic, Tsimshianic, Mongolic, Slavic, etc.
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Post by sarmat on Jun 19, 2009 18:09:36 GMT 3
Hugh Pope, for example, uses both "Turkic" and "Turkish" languages. And I perfectly know what Turkic means, thanks. :-)
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 19, 2009 19:04:21 GMT 3
Sarmat,
My apologies. I didn't intend to explain "Turkic" to you specifically. I have a tendency sometimes to address a specific person and then write for a general audience.
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Post by sarmat on Jun 19, 2009 19:22:04 GMT 3
Dear Hjernespiser,
You don't need to apologize, everything is fine my friend. :-)
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Post by turanicturk on Nov 29, 2011 3:43:07 GMT 3
There´s a mistake we Turks do,or kinda forced to do.That is calling each other with with different names like Azeri,Uzbek,Turkmen ect.I have seen many Kazakh* who claims not to be Turk but Kazakh*,for that thanks to Soviet assimilation politics.There are no nations as Azeri,Kazakh or Tatar but there is Azerbaijan Turk,Turkey Turk,Kazakhstan Turk,Tatarstan Turk,but today being Turkish is like kinda being Turkey citizien,which is completely wrong.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Nov 29, 2011 18:11:19 GMT 3
What is Turkic ?
Kazakhs,Uzbeks,Uighurs,Turkmens,Azeris,Kyrgyz not Turks? They says " We are not Turks,we are Turkics"
Only Oghuz Turks says " We are Turks " Turks and Turkics diffrent peoples? That's what I think when I think Turks en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JanissaryThe first Janissary units were formed from prisoners of war and slaves, probably as a result of the sultan taking his traditional one-fifth share of his army's plunder in kind rather than cash.[3] From the 1380s onwards, their ranks were filled under the devşirme system, where feudal dues were paid by service to the sultan.[3] The "recruits" were mostly Christian youths, reminiscent of Mamelukes.[1] Sultan Murad may have used futuwa groups as a model. Initially the recruiters favoured Greeks (who formed the largest part of the first units) and Albanians (who also served as gendarmes), usually selecting about one boy from forty houses, but the numbers could be changed to correspond with the need for soldiers. Boys aged 14–18 were preferred, though ages 8–20 could be taken.[4] Recruits were sometimes gained through voluntarily accessions, as some parents were often eager to have their children enroll in the Janissary service that ensured them a successful career and comfort.[12] As borders of the Ottoman Empire expanded, the devşirme was extended to include Bulgarians, Croats, Serbs, and later Romanians, Georgians, Poles, Ukrainians and southern Russians. The Janissaries first began enrolling outside the devşirme system during the reign of Sultan Murad III (1574-1595) and abandoned devşirme recruitment completely during the 17th century. After this period, volunteers were enrolled, mostly of Muslim origin.[10] The Janissaries’ reputation increased to the point that by 1683, Sultan Mehmet IV abolished the devşirme, as increasing numbers of originally Muslim Turkish families had already enrolled their own sons into the force hoping for a lucrative career.[10] when I think Turkic I think this guy either that or a Mongol Turk Attachments:
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 1, 2011 16:04:38 GMT 3
Wrong.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 4, 2011 20:45:59 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 6, 2011 15:14:59 GMT 3
As I wrote before, the Janissaries formed only a small part of the entire Ottoman society.
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