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Post by Atabeg on Dec 9, 2011 16:38:19 GMT 3
"when I think Turkic I think this guy either that or a Mongol Turk"
what???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2011 4:24:16 GMT 3
What is Turkic ?
Kazakhs,Uzbeks,Uighurs,Turkmens,Azeris,Kyrgyz not Turks? They says " We are not Turks,we are Turkics"
Only Oghuz Turks says " We are Turks " Turks and Turkics diffrent peoples? Actually in Azerbaijan we call ourselves as Turk. Many, many would be offended if you would call them as Azeri.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 10, 2011 13:54:13 GMT 3
Calling Turks in Azerbaijan as Azeri would be like calling Turks in Turkey as Turkeyish.
What does the "ic" and "ish" suffix mean anyway?
Why do they have to create different groups of people by playing with words?
For example are the Englic and English people? or are there Slavic and Slavish people?
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 10, 2011 20:59:07 GMT 3
Turkian. Turkese.
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 10, 2011 21:03:49 GMT 3
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ic-ic Used to form adjectives from nouns with the meaning "of or pertaining to"; en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ian -ian (as an adjective) From, related to, or like. (as a noun) One from, belonging to, relating to, or like. (as a noun) The male version of certain professions when distinguished from the female. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ish(appended to roots denoting names of nations or regions) Of a nationality, region, or place, or the language associated with a place. Cornish, Danish, English, Kentish, Spanish en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ese-ese Used to form adjectives and nouns describing things and characteristics of a city, region, or country, such as the people and the language spoken by these people. Viennese, Maltese falcon, Parmese, Japanese, Faroese, Viennese waltz
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 10, 2011 21:08:13 GMT 3
Don't forget Turkienne.
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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 11, 2011 0:53:58 GMT 3
Well, I actually tend to believe that original name of the Old Turks was Sir or Syr as it's mentioned in Orkhon inscriptions and probably identical with Sers of the ancient authors. In time this name was completely replaced by the term "Turk" which in turn has become so general that to include many other peoples not directly related to the original Sirs. But studies often concern only with tracing back the names from historical sources instead of considering the real ethnogenetic process and thus give rise to confusion and funny notions like that as if Turks have emerged suddenly out of nowhere around the mid-6th century which couldn't be true.
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Post by ancalimon on Dec 11, 2011 16:12:24 GMT 3
Well, I actually tend to believe that original name of the Old Turks was Sir or Syr as it's mentioned in Orkhon inscriptions and probably identical with Sers of the ancient authors. In time this name was completely replaced by the term "Turk" which in turn has become so general that to include many other peoples not directly related to the original Sirs. But studies often concern only with tracing back the names from historical sources instead of considering the real ethnogenetic process and thus give rise to confusion and funny notions like that as if Turks have emerged suddenly out of nowhere around the mid-6th century which couldn't be true. That's what I think. The name should be Syr or Sur. It later becomes Tyr, Tur. I think the "k" is a suffix meaning "we belong to, our ancestors are, our lord is" thus in this context, TURK should mean : "we belong to TUR" The word could be related with sür (to keep going, to drive, to rule, law), sürü (many, herd) For example sür<>türe meaning "law" can be seen among other Tur people that migrates to Europe. (like I showed in another topic here "Draconian law" - tyran - ... ) we can find for example another word thought to be Persian "zor : hard, force" Another theory is that it means "We are from the God". See Chuvash Tură <> Tengri I've got another theory: TUR means "the power that makes you move", "momentum", "the good path" It could be related with DOÐ (sunrise), DOÐ (birth), DOÐRU (through, towards), DOÐRU (true, good, right)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 11, 2011 19:37:06 GMT 3
ancalimon, for Tengri's sake, please do not attempt to make etymologies by yourself.
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Post by tangriberdi on Jan 28, 2012 3:13:41 GMT 3
Two different schools claim two different etymologies for the very word Turk. 1- Turuk is interpreted to derive from the very verb türü- (to originate, derive, descend) the verb türü is suffixed with a suffix, turning verb to be an adjective. So Türük meant simply originated one, derived one, descended one. In the beginning Turuk was not a noun referring to ethnic identity, rather, it was an adjective describing the social status. That's why we found Turuk bodun ( Turk tribes) Turuk begler (Turk beys) etc... in old sources. It was much latr the very word turned into a noun and became an supraethnic name.
2-In Z Turkic the word Tüze means law, law system, legislation. In old Turkic ( when Z Turkic had not appeared yet, and proto Turkic R had been preserved) It was Türe. Türük is simply meant those who hold law, those who hold legislative bodies, Those with laws, Lawful ones.
Both are very convincing but the second one lacks proper etymologic explications.
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Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 17, 2013 8:01:19 GMT 3
If we apply it to Chinese ..there are Cantonese Chinese and Mandarin Chinese, both speak different dialects and according to my Cantonese friend, they can't properly understand eachother but they still do not make different nations..They are all Chinese.
I am Oguz another one may be Uygur or Kýrgýz ,we have different dialects but what make us different nations when all Chinese are same nation..Because we are nomadic?
And we didn't make this Turk -Turkic distinction, foreign people did.That's why ,I only use it on linguistic basis not for people ..But I don't argue on this with people from other tribes because they don't seem to like it .Should I say I am Oðuz as they do ,if my nation name is making problem , use my tribe name? Very complicated indeed.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 17, 2013 11:45:35 GMT 3
What makes all those different types of Chinese as Chinese is the Chinese written language. Mandarin, Cantonese and other dialects all have different pronunciations but words are written the same way. That's how the Chinese can communicate (that's also why TV broadcasts in China always have written Chinese subtitles).
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Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 17, 2013 12:14:34 GMT 3
It still goes same way..We were nomadic tribes and used different alphabeths developed different dialects in time -does it make us different nations or one nation consisting different tribes ?
I think we must decide this .Sedantery standarts applied to nomadic tribes causing lots of confusion. It is not easy to set our standarts for people who are not grown up in our culture,so their classifications are being problematic I guess.I don't know any other nation experiencing this tribe/nation problems, except Turk-ics.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 18, 2013 9:04:14 GMT 3
But dialect differences existed even before the Turks became sedentary - Mahmud of Kashghar mentions this a lot.
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Post by ancalimon on Apr 20, 2013 3:44:54 GMT 3
There were different group of Turks. Some of them were Semi-Nomadic and herders, while others were settled permanently and farmers.
Actually, For a semi-nomadic Turkic people to survive against settled populations (who are assumed as culturally and technologically being better), there needs exist a settled Turkic people that are logistically reachable.
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