Where did the Ottomans come from?

[arnewise12]

Hi, I wonder where the ottomans came from, I have two different theoris, one is that ertughrul father of osman came from Khorasan. and the other is that suleyman the grandfather of ertughrul came from syria, which one is correct or is both of them wrong.

There is a tomb of suleyman on syria or am I wrong

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

15th-16th century Ottoman chronicles say that the House of Osman belonged to the Kayı (Qayï) tribe of the Oġuz Turks, and that these came to Anatolia from Asia Minor, but the ancestor of Osman ('Othmān) Süleyman Šah (Sulaymān Šāh) died in Syria while crossing Euphrates. The clan from Kayı, led by Ertuġrul Beg, joined a battle on their way and helped the Seljuk sultan defeat the "Tatars" (Mongols, but now it's thought these were probably the men of Jelâle'd-dîn Meŋgüberti the Xwārazmšāh, and that the battle was Yassıçimen). The sultan gave some land to them near Ankara, but they later moved to Söğüt in Bithynia.

Now, this "history" is heavily blended in myths. Osman's ancestor Süleyman Šah is very highly probably the Süleyman Šah who established the Rûm (Anatolian) Seljuks in the late 11th century - he did die on the banks of Euphrates by committing suicide after he was defeated by Tutuš, the Seljuk governor of Syria. His tomb is still there, with a Turkish garrison, and it is officially Turkish land. However, this Süleyman Šah, being a member of the House of Seljuk from the Kınık (Qïnïq) tribe of the Oġuz, has nothing to do with the House of Osman in reality, so he was probably added later to the histories.

Some modern historians doubted and still doubt that the House of Osman belonged to the Kayı tribe, because there are no contemporary records to verify these - the earliest documents relating Osman to the Kayı date from the late 15th century. Some historians even doubted that Osman was Ertuġrul's son. Also, some historians thought the Ottoman principality was founded by a group of un-related frontier warriors (ġâzîs) instead of some clansmen - and that Osman's ancestors were already living in Anatolia before the 13th century as frontiersmen. By the way, during 14th-15th centuries, there was also an unofficial myth about Ottoman origins, the one supported and spoken out by Temür (Timur, Tamerlane), that the Ottoman family were "sons of fishermen". This probably has no historical basis at all.

As for my opinion, yes even though we don't have any contemporary records, I still think it's highly possible that Osman was Ertuġrul's son, who was from the Kayı tribe (more specifically, the Karakeçili clan of this tribe - I am also from this clan from my paternal side, so this makes me related to the Ottoman family ;D), because this tradition was reflected in all Ottoman official histories. However, it is also true that the earliest growth of the Ottoman principality was mostly due to frontiersmen - the principality was founded by clansmen, but it started growing because of frontier warriors who joined this principality.

[arnewise12]

ah thanks, I had another question, the rumseljuks and the ottomans were oghuz turks, why didnt they calllthem selfs turkmens, did they forgatt that they were turkmens or what?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

They knew they were Oghuz Turks and Turkmens. "Seljukid" and "Ottoman" are political terms, not ethnic.

[hjernespiser]

How did Osman change into Ottoman?

[sarmat]

In Arabic it's Othmane, and French distorted is as Ottoman, then from French it spread into other European languages including English.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

There is also one theory saying that the real name of Osman was not Arabic Osman but Turkic Ataman. Of course this is highly debatable.

[arnewise12]

They knew they were Oghuz Turks and Turkmens. "Seljukid" and "Ottoman" are political terms, not ethnic.

U didnt answer my question, why didnt the ottomans callthemselfs turkmens but turks instead

[sarmat]

There was no a clear distinction between using the names Turks, Turkoman etc. all those names were used interchangeble In the later years of Ottoman Empire, however, "Turkoman" became a designation for the Turks that continued to live nomadic way of life.

[terekeme]

May 19, 2009 18:56:19 GMT 3 sarmat said:

There was no a clear distinction between using the names Turks, Turkoman etc. all those names were used interchangeble In the later years of Ottoman Empire, however, "Turkoman" became a designation for the Turks that continued to live nomadic way of life.

Nearly 3 weeks ago a professor of Ankara University on TRT-Avaz cannel said these ;

There was a Türkiye named state founded in Egypt region.It was state of Kipchak Turks.This state were calling themselves as Turk but claiming that peoples living in Anatolia were not Turk but Turkmen.

From here we may accept that there is a Turk other than Turkmen.

And remember two other popular discussions; one is about Terekeme (a Turkic ethnicity of Turkey) name comes from "Turkoman" and the other discussions is about Terekemes are not Oghuz but Kipchak Turks.