Similarities of Turkish and Native American

[pilav]

ireland.iol.ie/~afifi/Articles/turkic.htm

The article is quite long so I will take some parts out. I did not write it so if there is mis-information on Central Asia, please take note.

Turks being Altaic people of Central Asia are the lucky and proud inheritors of the Altaic words "ata", "apa" and "ana" through their Turkic languages.[1] [2] [3] In this set of Altaic words, the first two have been used for "father", "ancestor" and "old man" and the last one for "mother" throughout the history by different Altaic groups of peoples. Where ever the ancestors of Turks have migrated from their original homelands in Central Asia, they have carried with them these words as "linguistic artefacts" of their Altaic language to their new destinations

1i) In Turkish, the two words that have been used interchangeably for "father", i.e., the words "ata" and "apa" could go through some transformation in time. Particularly, the phonemes "t" in "ata" and "p" in "apa" would tend to change into consonants "d" as in "ada" and "b" in "aba" respectively. This is noted to be so in various dialects of Turkish.

Here is the variations of Father:

1. Turkish-ata, apa, baba
2. Eskimo-atataq
3. Aleut-adaq
4 Wahtoktata -antcha
5 Konza etahceh
6 Omaha dada
7 Sioux atcucu

Mother:
1.Turkish- ana, anne
2.Eskimo- ananaq
3. Aleut- anaq
4.Wahtokata- ehong
5.Konza- enah
6.Omaha- ehong
7.Sioux- huco

Conclusion:

Ancient Central Asiatic peoples, among them the ancestors of Turks, are known to have migrated from their homelands in steps of Central Asia and Siberia to east, west, north and south. It is also known that the Native peoples of Americas have migrated from Asia to their new homelands in the Americas thousands of years ago. However, in the known history, the ancestors of Turks and the ancestors of Native Peoples of Americas are not known to have made contact with each other. Yet in spite of this fact, it is surprising to see that Turkish, as a member of the Altaic languages, should have common living words with some of the native languages of Americas

I found no errors, but with only two words it hard to say. Shouldn't there be at least some cultural traditions in the natives that came from Central Asia?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Indeed, those words can also be found in languages unrelated to Altaic languages - they are common words everywhere. The author should have found more numerious and more complicated examples.

[hjernespiser]

Based upon the summary provided by pilav, I'm not even going to bother reading the link. Sorry. I think pilav says it all when he writes, "but with only two words it hard to say". Linguists don't make theories based upon such tenuous "evidence".

[aca]

I have another example:

Spanish - siete (number seven)
Yakut - sette (number seven)

So, using the same logic seen in the article posted by Pilav, we come to a conclusion that Spanish and Yakut are related languages ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I really hate these pseudo-linguists

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

LOL indeed, me too ;D ;D

There are plenty of them here in Turkey, and they are popular

[pilav]

Mar 30, 2009 12:48:00 GMT 3 aca said:

I have another example:

Spanish - siete (number seven)
Yakut - sette (number seven)
I really hate these pseudo-linguists

I didn't bother to post the part where the author starts twisting stuff to justify her claims.

Russian- syem (number seven)
Hebrew- Zayen (numero 7)

Russian, Spanish, Hebrew,and Yakut must be related(according to the article)

[aca]

Spanish "siete" comes from Latin "septem" = 7

Yakut "sette" comes from Old Turkic "yeti / yiti" (initial Turkic "y" became "s" in Yakut) so "yeti" -> "seti" -> "sette" = 7

Russian "syem" ("sem" in original) comes from Slavic "sedam" = 7

So, Russian and Hebrew (as well as Spanish and Yakut) are related to each other in the same manner as the author of this article is related to Darth Vader

[pilav]

Mar 30, 2009 16:36:08 GMT 3 aca said:

the author of this article is related to Darth Vader

Lolz...I guess thats what it all boils down to ;

[realhun]

My brother has been driving me nuts this past year with very similar analogies. He finds one word or name place in another language or country and determines an ultimate conclusion with the belief that he's 100% correct.

The examples relate to my family name Hajost - used to be spelled Hajos with umlaut two dots over the o:

In the Hungarian/Magyar language the word "jo" means yes, good. The word "hajo" means boat and the word "hajos" means leader of the boat.

My brother found there is a somewhat common family name in Germany - "Joest" or "Jost" with the umlaut over the o. This name doesn't have any meaning at all related to the meaning of our family name. Also he's found two name places in two Scandinavian countries that have a name that's a little similar to our family name, but, not spelled the same way. I did some research and couldn't find any people, names or name places in Hungary with name "Joest" or "Jost". It doesn't exist! However, I've discovered many names and name places in Hungary with the Hajos name.

My brother thinks our name and ethnicity are actually either Scandinavian or German. However, he doesn't want to except the fact that our grandparents only spoke Magyar and never spoke one word of German. They always referred to themselves as Magyars and this is why they came to the USA in 1913 because they felt that Hungary should be independent, not allied with Austria/Germany and not involved with WWI.

He's mentioned the Scandinavian word for shark is "haj". I believe there are the words "hajj" and "hajji" that have completely different meanings in a different language. Also, I found an ethnic group of people named the "Haj" who are related to the Hun and Bashkirs. I've read they've been living in the Caucasus ever since the Hun were living in that area. Connection with the Scandinavian word "haj"? I don't think so!

When I attempt to use his same way of reasoning he completely refutes what I tell him! We now know that the Avars had permanent settlements for quite a long time located as far West as the Eastern half of Austria and Eastern/Southern Germany. Southern Germany has been called Bavaria by Germans for many centuries and is unique ethnically and linguistically compared to the rest of Germany. Also, the Bavarians have a well known name associated with their region of Germany - "Bayern" Hmmmm.......similar to the Mongol word/name "Bayan"? I don't know if these similarities have any merit or not, however, my brother is absolutely certain there's no connection at all. Who knows maybe there is or maybe there isn't a connection. Oh, there's more. The Avars built massive walled cities with circular shaped walls throughout Europe named the Avar Ring. The Germans have had a national symbol of connected rings for many centuries and they also had an auto racing track named Avus. Oh well.....who knows if there's any connection at all with these words, etc.? My brother just drives me nuts with his logic! Well.....at least I believe the things I've mentioned have more merit than the nonsense he's attempted to throw at me! ;D

[hjernespiser]

Real Hun,

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but your surname is a mystery. This is true that hajós means basically "boatman" or "sailor" someone at least who's business it is to drive boats (boat being hajó in Hungarian). But you said two things that are confusing about this name. First, there is no umlaut in this name. The second is that the -t ending you say for Hajost. Is the translation of your surname something you learned from your grandparents or something you looked up on your own?

For the first issue, perhaps you mean to accent mark over the o (it isn't an umlaut). In Hungarian this accent mark means the o is a long o. An umlaut would make it a front vowel and violate vowel harmony. If indeed you mean an umlaut, it is possible that the meaning of your surname is not "sailor".

For the second item, the -t causes a problem. Many Hungarian names end in a -s because this turns a noun into an adjective which then gets converted to a noun again by zero derivation when used in a noun context like a name. That's why a -t on the end doesn't make sense again if the meaning of your surname is "sailor". Did you learn from your grandparents that the -t got added when they came to the US?

The third possibility is that the name is really something else. Just taking a peek at the surnames listed at RadixIndex (http://www.radixindex.com/surnameindex/surnameindex_ha.shtml) and I don't see any Hajost listed as among the variations, but there is a Hajostek, which doesn't seem Magyar.

[realhun]

Hjernespiser,

There's no disrespect here. I have thick skin! ;D Yes, my surname has always been a mystery to not only me, but, everybody else too! Your name is unique too. I'm not familiar with it as being a Hungarian or Magyar name. What ethnicity is your surname?

Actually, I've seen the name Hajos spelled with an accent mark over the o and also with the umlaut, two dots, over the o. I don't know how this affects the meaning of the name. When I was in Budapest I saw the name Hajos spelled both ways on signs. I have photos of me standing next to and under the signs. One photo shows me standing under a street sign with the name spelled with an umlaut. This street and sign are located adjacent to the Hungarian/Magyar State Opera House which is located in the Buda side of the city. However, I also saw another street sign located in the Buda side that had the name spelled with an accent mark over the o and I also took a photo of this sign too. I went to the Hajos Natatorium which is located on an island in the middle of the Danube River in Budapest. As you might already know, Alfred Hajos was the first Olympic Champion Swimmer during the first Olympic competition in modern times. Also, he was a brilliant architect who designed and built this Hajos Natatorim where the World and Olympic Champion Water Polo Team trains. I have a photo of me standing next to the sign where Alfred Hajos has his name engraved. I've seen his name spelled with the accent mark over the o and also with an umlaut, two dots, over the o.

In regards to the t on the end of my name: My grandma told me our name used to be spelled Hajos and at some point in time the t was added to the end of our name. Because my last name is so unique, I've done a lot of research on my name over the years. Actually, I've found many variations of the original Hajo and Hajos surnames. There's Hajovsky, Hajosi, and the list goes on and on with most of the names beginning with Hajos and some more letters added to this name. I met a Hungarian/Magyar man and when I introduced myself and mentioned my surname he immediately pronounced it and spelled it Hajosi. He was very surprised when I told him it was spelled Hajost! He said it should be spelled Hajosi.

Also, there's a wine region located in the very South Central part of Hungary adjacent to the Danube River named Hajos. I've seen this name with the umlaut , two dots, and the accent mark over the o. In fact, when my parents visited Hungary, my father brought back some wine from this region. I have two different empty bottles. One bottle states that it was produced in "The Famous Hajos Region" with an umlaut, two dots, over the o. Both bottles of wine state they are of the Hajosi brand or type with an accent mark over the o. I've researched my surname extensively and have never found a name or name place in Germany that even comes close to Hajos except for Jost and Joest which are completely different names and have nothing to do with Hajos. I couldn't find any names or name places in Germany with the names Hajost and Hajos. The only area where I've found the name Hajost is a small percentage of people having this name who live in the area around where my grandparents villages are located in what was the very northern fringe of the old Hungarian Empire. However, I've detected many names and name places with the name Hajos inside the current borders of Hungary.

As you probably know, for about 1,000 years up until right after WWI, the Hungarian Empire was much larger. My grandparent's original villages were located in the very North Central fringe of the Hungarian Empire, just inside the original border from the older maps I've seen. Actually,my parents have been back to these villages to visit. I don't know if my grandparents families always lived there or if they migrated there at some point in time. I do know this fact: When the Magyars migrated from the Ukraine, the majority of them went through the Carpathian Mountain Pass and into the Danubian Plain. However, a very significant number of them went North and then East above the Tatra Mountains and settled there. Also, one of the fortified Avar cities and many burial sites and artifacts have been found in this general area in recent years from archeological digging. It's also important to note that it's a fact that most of the indigenous (true Hungarian/Magyars) from the Southern and Eastern regions of Hungary were killed during two invasions. However, the Northern region of Hungary was never invaded. So.....the original population wasn't decimated like it was in the Southern and Eastern regions. Also, during the second invasion a very significant number of ethnic Hun/Magyars migrated to the Northern Region of the Empire to escape the carnage because in many of the battles their army was being outnumbered 6 to 1. It was very difficult to win any battles with those odds!

Well.....for myself and our viewers this is all getting very confusing at this point. Bottom line is my grandparents always thought of themselves as Magyars and they both spoke, read and wrote this language fluently. My grandparents never spoke one word of German. They identified themselves so much as Magyars that they chose to leave all of their farmland behind to migrate to Budapest before coming to the USA in 1913 to avoid the impending WWI. My grandpa felt very strongly that Hungary should be completely independent and not at all allied with Austria and Germany. My grandparents weren't German nor were they Russian and they felt it wasn't at all appropriate for them or Hungary to be involved in a stupid war between those two countries. They knew things were going to get very ugly. So.....they decided to pack up and get out of Dodge to begin a new life in America! I'm glad they did because if they didn't, it's very likely my grandpa would have been killed and I wouldn't be here to post this reply! ;D

The Real Hun - Hajos

[hjernespiser]

Perhaps the umlaut o is an archaic spelling. Which name of mine are you referring to? Hjernespiser?

Adding the -i (or previously -y) indicates place of origin. Hajosi means "from Hajos". Hajovsky is a Slavic name. Be careful with accent marks on what appear to be variations; Hájos means "fatty".

[realhun]

Well....this spelling can't be that archaic can it?! It's on a modern street sign in the heart of Budapest! ;D Right?! Actually, I did some research on the name Hajos. The archaic meaning is "built like a true Hun" - 6 feet 3 inches tall, 225 pounds and solid muscle, able to bench press 400 pounds and dead lift 600 pounds, also able to swim very fast! Wow! This sounds like an exact description of me! ;D

I was referring to both of your names, Hjernespiser and Sad Actually, I used to have a friend who's family was from Lebanon and their surname was Saad.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Ah, Šad (Shad), an Old Turkic title of Iranic-Sanskrit origin, is a rank in this forum ;D You can check our ranks here

steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=board01&action=display&thread=268

[realhun]

Ok, thanks! Ihsan