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Post by erik on Feb 27, 2009 15:12:57 GMT 3
Many European genaral and kings joined the battle as a soldier. The Swedish King Karl den XII joined his soliders risking his life and died in battle as late as the 18th century. I think it was uncommon that late but earlier it sure was normal in west.
How did Mongols see on this? I read that Subutai used to stay in safe distance directing the battle. Feels stupid to put such a great genaral in risk for honor. And how about Chinggis Khaan? He sure must have been in many battles uniting the tribes. But later? Did he fight?
The Mongols did many things that were considerd cowardly and without honor. Ran from a battle that could be fought on a better place. Read some great quote from i think subutai on that. After japanese critised their dishounerble behavior in war, cant rember it though. I think also missile warfare was looked down on in europe. Atleast hand to hand combat was were he glory was.
Not having this tabus/Codes that u cant retreat from a loosing battle or just an unfavorable battle and that ur genarals or even kings has to risk their lifes had to be a huge benefit.
Anyone knows how they saw on things like this?
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Post by snafu on Feb 28, 2009 7:48:15 GMT 3
I'm pretty sure that the policy later on was that Mongol generals stood apart from the battle, usually on a high place so they could survey the fighting.
And they did have some code of honor. For example it was a capital offense for an officer to abandon his squad in battle. But overall they put more importance on winning than making a good show of it. Steppe folk were pretty practical that way.
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Post by Subu'atai on Mar 18, 2009 14:20:51 GMT 3
Aye, steppe folk operated like modern armies, generals coordinated the attacks and soldiers carried the frontline fights.
Feigned retreats is considered a rather 'cheap' tactic in those times, but then again steppe armies always fought outnumbered -> without such tactics steppe armies would have suffered too high casualties as their numbers were always low.
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Post by tadamson on Mar 19, 2009 20:00:24 GMT 3
Though the Secret History, Yuan Shi etc inlude numerous stories of generals getting directly involved in the fighting.
In truth, any good leader will realise that there are times when the general has to 'lead by example' to encourage the men.
Tom..
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 19, 2009 22:02:00 GMT 3
There were also some Göktürk rulers and princes who directly fought in battles.
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Post by Subu'atai on Mar 20, 2009 14:41:17 GMT 3
I think the real general criticised is... well, ME But you can't expect me to charge into battle like I did when I was young against the Khan's enemies! By the time I reached Europe, I managed to squish my own horse By this time I was so already f--king fat and tubby they needed to cart me around in a wagon! But why didn't my men just abandon me? Because my military brain is just simply too valuable to go to waste ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 20, 2009 23:00:53 GMT 3
LOL yeah I love that story about Sübe'etei's fatness ;D ;D
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Post by tadamson on Mar 31, 2009 19:42:23 GMT 3
LOL yeah I love that story about Sübe'etei's fatness ;D ;D There are scholars who suggest actual uses for the 'iron carts'. Whilst some of these are 'highly imaginative' They may well be military engineers or some such. Tom..
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Post by Temüjin on Mar 31, 2009 21:56:29 GMT 3
is it possible there were two people with the name Sübe'edai? iirc, Sübe'edai was mentioned in the SHoM very early and he was still militarically active after Chinggis died.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 31, 2009 22:59:16 GMT 3
Really? I don't think so They were the same people. What we know that during Batu's European Campaign, Sübe'etei was already very old, and just after the army returned back to Mongolia, the old general died.
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Post by Temüjin on Apr 1, 2009 17:58:09 GMT 3
but didn't he also finished the siege of Kaifeng which also happened after the European campaign?
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Post by realhun on Apr 2, 2009 0:47:37 GMT 3
Hello to everyone! You guys are very funny with some of your jokes and stories. ;D LOL I haven't posted anything about Mongolia until now. I'm going to switch gears here if that's ok? A while back I visited the city of Xian and it was very fascinating. I know I wasn't that far away from the Inner Mongolian Region's border. I really wish I had the time to go there to visit including Mongolia itself. I will do this some day! I just want to tell the Mongolian Members about the wonderful experience I had when I witnessed the Inner Mongolian Dance Troupe perform as the opening ceremony for the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, GA USA. It's the most amazing display of dancing, singing and music I've ever experienced in my whole life. It was amazing!!! I have to admit I got a little emotional when I heard them singing. I closed my eyes and it sounded very much like what I heard from my wonderful Hungarian/Magyar Grandparents when I was a child. It was the first time since I was a little boy that I heard anybody speaking/singing in a language that sounded just like my grandparent's Hungarian/Magyar language! The performers were all very happy and proud, rightfully so! ;D I was very happy and proud of them!!! I will never forget this performance. Best regards! The Real Hun - Hajos
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 2, 2009 15:27:51 GMT 3
I thought Kaifeng 開封 fell in 1234 But yes, indeed Sübe'etei did fight against the Song in China for a short time before he died, I forgot that. Yeah, I wish the same too Wow
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Post by jezzicaz789 on Nov 30, 2009 21:43:00 GMT 3
I'm pretty sure that the policy later on was that Mongol generals stood apart from the battle, usually on a high place so they could survey the fighting. And they did have some code of honor. For example it was a capital offense for an officer to abandon his squad in battle. But overall they put more importance on winning than making a good show of it. Steppe folk were pretty practical that way. Hi all, I am a new member of forum. Would a newcomer be warmly welcome here? Good day you guys!!! __________________ Watch Movies Online Free
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