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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 4, 2008 21:57:22 GMT 3
How did everyone fight? The same way?
Is it true that Naimans used foot soldiers in their armies, did Kereyids field camels, etc. Just a question, not much information on the pre-Chingghis tribes and how they fought.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 5, 2008 2:33:44 GMT 3
I have seen no records of Naimans using infantrymen or Kereys using camels in battles. They are described in sources as typical horse-riding nomadic armies, but Jamuqa is referred to have been describing the Naimans as armed more heavily than their eastern neighbors.
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 5, 2008 2:59:19 GMT 3
Hmmm, well Mongols still used camels as "runners" to keep our archers supplied with arrows or to carry the naqara. I'm trying to piece together whether there was any difference between the fighting styles of pre-Chingghisid tribes.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 5, 2008 11:20:02 GMT 3
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any records that describe those in detail  Camels were also used by the earlier Turks too. I once saw a petroglyph from the Yenisei region which depicted a spearman mounted on a camel, fighting against an enemy warrior. Camels were also probably used as transports. The Ottomans used camels for background service too. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 5, 2008 13:28:42 GMT 3
ARGH, this so sucks that no one can answer this question  lol oh well, btw if you have time do you remember the link to that petroglyph? |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 5, 2008 21:21:46 GMT 3
Here, found it in my picture archive  img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inscriptionwithpicturedh7.jpgI had seen this picture on the inner cover of a book about Central Asia, which I had read during my first year in the university. Unfortunately, I didn't take any notes regarding the exact location of this petroglyph Plus, I found this picture in my "Eastern Steppe (Mongolia)" folder, so I am not sure if this belongs to Yenisei Qïrġïz. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 6, 2008 2:16:14 GMT 3
LOL thanks, I think it's good enough So camel warriors + horsemen + more heavily armed naimans. Only known variety between armies of this time. =/ |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 7, 2008 18:53:18 GMT 3
Well I don't know if the steppe armies of that time used camels in Mongolia |
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Post by Subu'atai on Dec 8, 2008 11:40:26 GMT 3
Oh well then we'll just assume 'facts' until proven stupid |
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Post by tadamson on Dec 8, 2008 16:27:21 GMT 3
Re Naiman and infantry.
Although they were a powerful confederation they didn't control any large settlements that might have provided infantry and there is no record that I recall of them using infantry. Given that I would suggest that its highly unlikely.
Re camels.
There are several images (Turkic and Chinese) of armed camel riders (mostly in hunting poses). We also have records of caravan guards mounted on camels, people hunting on camels and Central Asian cavalry riding on camels (towing the warhorse behind), but we have no records of bodies of camel mounted troops fighting mounted in any of the steppe armies.
Both statements are of the 'no evidence' but that's not uncommon in these discussions.
Rgds,
Tom..
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