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Post by norbu on Aug 1, 2008 0:15:14 GMT 3
Hi all, New to the forums here... I'm doing a bit of research on up and coming film project... so I'm curious what sort of films you could add to a list of Mongolian/steppe peoples themed films and TV shows. They can be in any language and from any country - documentary based or theatrical/feature film based. I realize that what is out there might be totally inaccurate and then of course there will be some real gems out there as well.  To date the ones that stick in my mind as being well done are The Weeping Camel www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrJQtndWg8gen.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_weeping_camelThe Cave of the Yellow Dogwww.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlan8eCU-sEen.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cave_of_the_Yellow_Dogboth written and directed by a Mongolian woman director Byambasuren Davaaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byambasuren_DavaaSo a few questions:1) What other films can you recommend that show Mongolian/steppe peoples culture and history?
2) As a Mongol/of steppe peoples ancestry or a fan of Mongolian/steppe culture what would you like to see portrayed in a film that you haven't seen yet... or that has been shown but been badly or inaccurately executed? 3) And pointers on fiction that is written with Mongolian/steppe people characters and settings would be great as well. *forum mods if this topic doesn't fit in this forum please feel free to move it to the proper place.  Thanks in advance for your insights, Norbu |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 1, 2008 1:30:30 GMT 3
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Post by sarmat on Aug 1, 2008 5:21:30 GMT 3
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Post by norbu on Aug 1, 2008 12:50:23 GMT 3
Thank you fellas!
This is a good start for me... I remembered that I actually have Urga somewhere... man how could I forget!?!?
*runs off to dig through stacks of DVD's
The other threads here on the forum should prove really useful - thank you very much!
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 7, 2008 22:58:16 GMT 3
both are German (Bavarian) productions. i have to say i found both movies boring & retarded. but i'd like to hear other opinions as well. the reason i didn't liked those movies: - portrays Mongolians as superstitious, backwards people suspicious of modern (western) technology and lifestyle. could be described as "caveman-romanticism". - the only strong points of those movies is the Mongolian landscape, but i really don't need to see a (non-documentary) film for that. Urga, as mentioned by sarmat is excellent, thats the first one i would recommend to everyone, it accomplishes what those two movies (perhaps) tried to achieve but is at least 10 years older. the existence of this movie makes the two new ones obsolete and look ridiculous. [/b] As a Mongol/of steppe peoples ancestry or a fan of Mongolian/steppe culture what would you like to see portrayed in a film that you haven't seen yet... or that has been shown but been badly or inaccurately executed?[/quote] as for the latter, the new movie about Temujin (Mongol), or for that matter any older movie on Genghis Khan, particularly the hollywood ones should be redone. it might be controversial but a movie about Ungern-Sternberg and the making of modern Mongolia would be interesting. |
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Post by norbu on Aug 8, 2008 21:58:52 GMT 3
both are German (Bavarian) productions. i have to say i found both movies boring & retarded. but i'd like to hear other opinions as well. the reason i didn't liked those movies: - portrays Mongolians as superstitious, backwards people suspicious of modern (western) technology and lifestyle. could be described as "caveman-romanticism". - the only strong points of those movies is the Mongolian landscape, but i really don't need to see a (non-documentary) film for that. Hmm... interesting take on the films. I don't think that the film makes any attempt to portray all Mongolians as superstitious backwards people. Surely the director being Mongolian herself isn't keen to slander her own people. I think in just about any culture... the further you get from city centers you will find superstitious people who don't readily accept all methodologies or technologies. I think that people don't just drop centuries old beliefs and customs just because technology and modern ways have rolled in all shiny and new. I'm actually glad they don't... otherwise we'd all be playing GameBoy and listening to an iPod while we drink a can of Coke. I think in just about every culture you see a mixture of the old and new. I think it's highly unrealistic to expect people from rural areas to want/need the same things that people from large industrialized and developed nations want. Again... this isn't unique to Mongolia... it happens in countries and cultures everywhere. In fact that might be the basis for a fascinating film in itself set in Mongolia... young Mongols adapting to a very different world than their parents knew. More access to media and technology than their parents would have had access to. Inevitably there will be some situations for comedy and heartbreak. Lucky for you that you weren't forced to watch those films. ;D For a vast majority of people who've never been to Mongolia I think they're a good look into the landscapes in Mongolia and and insight into how some Mongolian people believe and act. I also think they're an entirely valid look at a certain section of Mongolian beliefs. Not all Mongols have those beliefs... but then again the film didn't set out with an agenda to say 'this film represents all Mongolians'. Interesting.. I have it on order right now. Can't wait to see it. Interesting stuff. I will have a look into this. I'm not well versed on this part of Mongolian history myself so it should prove very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post up some of your opinions. Much appreciated. Norbu |
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 8, 2008 23:41:34 GMT 3
Hmm... interesting take on the films. I don't think that the film makes any attempt to portray all Mongolians as superstitious backwards people. Surely the director being Mongolian herself isn't keen to slander her own people. I think in just about any culture... the further you get from city centers you will find superstitious people who don't readily accept all methodologies or technologies. I think that people don't just drop centuries old beliefs and customs just because technology and modern ways have rolled in all shiny and new. I'm actually glad they don't... otherwise we'd all be playing GameBoy and listening to an iPod while we drink a can of Coke. I think in just about every culture you see a mixture of the old and new. I think it's highly unrealistic to expect people from rural areas to want/need the same things that people from large industrialized and developed nations want. Again... this isn't unique to Mongolia... it happens in countries and cultures everywhere. In fact that might be the basis for a fascinating film in itself set in Mongolia... young Mongols adapting to a very different world than their parents knew. More access to media and technology than their parents would have had access to. Inevitably there will be some situations for comedy and heartbreak. Lucky for you that you weren't forced to watch those films. ;D For a vast majority of people who've never been to Mongolia I think they're a good look into the landscapes in Mongolia and and insight into how some Mongolian people believe and act. I also think they're an entirely valid look at a certain section of Mongolian beliefs. Not all Mongols have those beliefs... but then again the film didn't set out with an agenda to say 'this film represents all Mongolians'. i don't suppose it was the aim of the director to portray Mongols that way but i strongly had the impression that both movies heavily draw on the concept of what i call "caveman romanticism", i mean some innocent savages and their naive old believes which are presented to a western city-dwelling 21st century audience. you also mentioned the landscape again, yeah i haven't seen Mongolia myself yet either but as said, i don't need a movie to do that, if i want to see that, i watch photos or wildlife documentaries but not a movie that was supposed to entertain, which it failed to do. but its best to wait until you have seen Urga, because it tackles the problematic i mentioned and it did so quite well and convincing and in a funny and entertaining way. |
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Post by norbu on Aug 9, 2008 0:57:40 GMT 3
i don't suppose it was the aim of the director to portray Mongols that way but i strongly had the impression that both movies heavily draw on the concept of what i call "caveman romanticism", i mean some innocent savages and their naive old believes which are presented to a western city-dwelling 21st century audience. you also mentioned the landscape again, yeah i haven't seen Mongolia myself yet either but as said, i don't need a movie to do that, if i want to see that, i watch photos or wildlife documentaries but not a movie that was supposed to entertain, which it failed to do. but its best to wait until you have seen Urga, because it tackles the problematic i mentioned and it did so quite well and convincing and in a funny and entertaining way. Hmm... sometimes I wonder if we're even talking about the same film. I didn't at all think the Mongolians in either film were portrayed as innocent savages. In fact I didn't really find much condescending about the way they were portrayed in either film. Again.... I don't see the director really going down that road. If they are from a remote rural area we can hardly expect them to be trendy, technologically sophisticated urbanites. I think if you compare with how the Mongolians in that film were portrayed vs. how Native Americans have been portrayed in film I think you might find that the Mongolians have fared far better... the decades of silly and downright racist ideas foisted upon viewing audiences about Native Americans is criminal. You will no doubt find Mongolian people who are very erudite and modern urbanites completely at ease with whatever technology... but no doubt you will still find there are many people in remote areas that cling to older belief systems that do include superstitions. That doesn't however equate to some sort of platitude. That much of the viewing audience for these films will be populations in urban centers of developed countries is neither here nor there. It simply is what it is. I really can't see someone like Byambasuren Davaa trying to pull out the trite story line of what is often referred to as 'the noble savage'. I'm not trying to force you to like either film. It's good that everyone holds their own opinions and it's always good conjecture for a forum to go over such differences in opinion as well. Norbu |
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Post by nanman on Aug 9, 2008 4:53:19 GMT 3
Whats everyone's take on Tuya's marriage www.imdb.com/title/tt0949564/Was it too boring? It highlighted the threat of extinction of nomadic traditions. |
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Post by norbu on Aug 9, 2008 13:20:47 GMT 3
Whats everyone's take on Tuya's marriage www.imdb.com/title/tt0949564/Was it too boring? It highlighted the threat of extinction of nomadic traditions. ahh... look fascinating. Thanks for posting that as I'd not even heard of it. I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so I'll see if I can track down a copy of it. As for whether it's too 'boring'. What can you do? It seems many people expect all films about Mongolia/steppe peoples to be nothing more than the raging hordes riding across the plain and laying waste to everything in site. A very narrow view of Mongolian/steppe culture and history indeed. |
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 9, 2008 22:03:42 GMT 3
Hmm... sometimes I wonder if we're even talking about the same film. I didn't at all think the Mongolians in either film were portrayed as innocent savages. In fact I didn't really find much condescending about the way they were portrayed in either film. Again.... I don't see the director really going down that road. If they are from a remote rural area we can hardly expect them to be trendy, technologically sophisticated urbanites. I think if you compare with how the Mongolians in that film were portrayed vs. how Native Americans have been portrayed in film I think you might find that the Mongolians have fared far better... the decades of silly and downright racist ideas foisted upon viewing audiences about Native Americans is criminal. You will no doubt find Mongolian people who are very erudite and modern urbanites completely at ease with whatever technology... but no doubt you will still find there are many people in remote areas that cling to older belief systems that do include superstitions. That doesn't however equate to some sort of platitude. That much of the viewing audience for these films will be populations in urban centers of developed countries is neither here nor there. It simply is what it is. I really can't see someone like Byambasuren Davaa trying to pull out the trite story line of what is often referred to as 'the noble savage'. I'm not trying to force you to like either film. It's good that everyone holds their own opinions and it's always good conjecture for a forum to go over such differences in opinion as well. Norbu as i said, i think its best to wait until you have seen the Urga movie, then you will understand my sentiments much better... |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 9, 2008 23:15:38 GMT 3
Whats everyone's take on Tuya's marriage www.imdb.com/title/tt0949564/Was it too boring? It highlighted the threat of extinction of nomadic traditions. I saw it's DVD in a bookstore several weeks ago but didn't buy if because it ws expensive ;D But if I'll see a cheaper one, I'm thinking of buying it. |
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Post by norbu on Aug 9, 2008 23:34:02 GMT 3
as i said, i think its best to wait until you have seen the Urga movie, then you will understand my sentiments much better... Yes I have the film on order now and I'm really looking forward to watching it. However I don't need to see another film in order to make up my mind about one I've already seen and so I stand by my opinion as evidenced by the above post. To be honest I don't watching another film is going to lend any credible evidence that a Mongolian director was out to slander her own people with silly platitudes and paint her people as 'noble savages' or promote what you call 'caveman romanticism'. Not saying you have to agree with me though. Norbu |
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 10, 2008 2:12:01 GMT 3
well i repeat again, i don't think it was the intention of the director to portray her people in this light as i mentioned, but this is what she did. Urga made an almost perfect crossover bewteen tradition & present (and even future) but you need to see it yourself to understand.
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Post by norbu on Aug 10, 2008 13:33:38 GMT 3
well i repeat again, i don't think it was the intention of the director to portray her people in this light as i mentioned, but this is what she did. Urga made an almost perfect crossover bewteen tradition & present (and even future) but you need to see it yourself to understand. hmmm... you seem fairl well convinced that she's somehow wronged her own people. I guess I'd have to ask... for either of her films... are you then saying that there are not Mongolians who still live in this fashion and still hold these sorts of customs and folk beliefs?  It's be silly to think there weren't. Are there Mongolians who go on to become doctors and scientists and yes even film directors... but I'd be willing to bet in remote and rural areas they don't let go of such customs very easily and in fact much of the culture that was represented in either of her films is still very much intact. You could take this same scenario and apply it to just about any group of people on earth. That really leads me to believe you're simply blaming her for making a film about segment of Mongolian society that wasn't the segment of the Mongolian population you wanted to see a film about. Yes she could very well have made a film about Mongolians who are in medical school or working as civil engineers or any other modern occupation... but she chose not to. That simply doesn't equate to her having made a film that is a showpiece of 'caveman romanticism'. Norbu |
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