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Post by Temüjin on Jun 22, 2008 22:33:13 GMT 3
what was his real name, Miran Shah or Amiranshah? also, what does his name mean?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 22, 2008 23:05:14 GMT 3
Persian Mîr ﻤﻴﺮ drives from Arabic Amîr (Lord) ﺍﻤﻴﺮ, so basicly they are the same thing  I think -ân is a suffix indicating plurality. |
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 23, 2008 0:58:21 GMT 3
so, it translates basically as lord of kings or lord of princes? which form of the name is the more accurate?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 23, 2008 1:38:09 GMT 3
It would be more correct to translate it as "Lord King". Such names were popular, like Alp Arslan's son Melikshah (Malik + Shah; Malik is the Arabic equivalent of Persian Shah).
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 23, 2008 16:43:32 GMT 3
i see, so there is no connection with Shahanshah = king of kings?
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Post by tengrikut on Jun 24, 2008 1:19:21 GMT 3
shahan means hawk, but i dont know if it is the same shahan
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 24, 2008 2:27:18 GMT 3
Uhm actually I thought a bit and realised you might be correct about translating it as "Lord of Kings"  Azadan would help you better. Shahan meaning falcon (probably drives from Shâhîn). Shânâhshâh means "King of Kings" and has nothing to do with neither Shahan nor Shâhîn. |
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Jun 24, 2008 23:24:59 GMT 3
Yes, this suffix is an old Iranian suffix still present indicating plurality. Since the name Amir was a loan word from the Arabic (actually imposed) the initial "a" was sometimes dropped, thus "Mir". Interesting about that is that such a word was in actual use in times of the Turkish migrations into Iranian territories up to times of the last of them The Qajars, in which the word was in frequent use.
Miran+Shah = Shah of Amirs simply, I don't think it is a good thing to translate titles like Amir to Prince or something. or Lord King for MiranShah
No connection, but the old story of the Arab or Turkish then time rulers trying to adopt the traditional title of king " Shah" and mix it with somehow religious (actually Arabic) titles ( which actually contradict each other due to the direct confrontation of the such titles at dawn of Arabic invasions). Shahanshah meaning King of the Kings was title used practically before Arabic invasion.
Shahin means falcon and also Shahbal means Eagle in Persian. The name Shah traditionally has sometimes this function that by coming together with some nouns declares the attribute of greatness in the following noun like: Shahmahi ( kind of fish), Shahnoosh (big goblet), Shahhang (big wasp).
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 25, 2008 20:17:10 GMT 3
Thank you for the explanations  I would like to add that the Tatar title Mirza comes from Arabic-Persian Amîrzâde (Son of Emir). |
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 25, 2008 20:53:37 GMT 3
very interesting, thanks |
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Jun 26, 2008 12:45:50 GMT 3
Your Welcome, Mirza was in a massive use during the period from Safavids to Qajars, in latter it reached it's peak.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 26, 2008 14:36:08 GMT 3
Ah I thought it was unique to Crimean Tatars only  Everyday I learn something else, which is good |
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 26, 2008 22:13:48 GMT 3
yes, Nadir Shahs sons were called like that as well. maybe Mughal princes too? i need to look that up.
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Jun 14, 2011 0:54:26 GMT 3
Yeah, the term "Amir" is a title that many post-Islamic dynasties, ruled in Iran or even Central Asia were fond of. Even contmporarily it has been in great use for the namegiving of the new born child; you may see examples of this in Iran, Af*ghanistan or even Pakistan.
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I think -ân is a suffix indicating plurality.
Azadan would help you better.
