Ahiska Dialect

[Atabeg]

[youtube]http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=xE5wkEtpYS4&feature=related
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what do you think it sounds more like Azeri, Anatolian Turkish or something else?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meskhetian_Turks

however this part of the text isn't correct:
Meskhetian Turkish varies in severals way from Standard Turkish in pronunciation. Over the years, Meskhetian Turkish has picked up various sounds that are not represented in the Turkish alphabet. For instance, the sound [q] from Uzbek, represented by the letter q or қ in the word qabul etmäk or қабул етмäк and also the Uzbek pronunciation of the sound /ʁ/ represented by ğ or ғ instead of the Turkish. In Meskhetian, there is a obvious distinction made between [æ] and [ɛ], as opposed to Turkish. In addition to /h/, Meskhetian also makes use of the sound /x/.

these sounds were allready present before the exile of the Meskhetian people from teh caucasus. What is my proof? Me! My family emigrated to Turkey in 1933 and so did other Families from Ahiska. We use those sounds (everyday less though, we're become assimilated into the Anatolian Turkish population)

Ahiska Dialect

English Turkish Ahiska Turkish
Mountain Dağ Tag(not a soft G)
Quick çabuk Tez (not used in modern day turkish) Taze means Fresh in Turkish
but it also means new in the Ahiska Dialect)
News Haber Xeber
blue mavi Kök (Basicly all the colours are the same as in old anatolian Turkish)
to go Crazy Delirmek Sasirmak

So basicly

H = X
A = E or more likely (Ä or ə)but never at the beginning of a word
D = T (D is almost never used in The ahiska Dialect ever word that stars with a D in Turkish starts with T in Ahiska Turkish, the only exception that comes to me is Demek
(to say) it’s the same)
ğ = g (sometimes ğ is used but seldom and never at the end of a sentence)
G = K
K = Sometimes X but seldom Q like in Azeri
ı = i (not as sharp as the i but sharper then ı)

The personal nouns are the same as in Turkish & Azeri (both are used)

But the grammar is slightly different than both (NT = not sure)

English Turkish Azeri Ahiska
I’m doing yapıyorum Yapirem Yapiğirim
U’re doing Yapıyorsun yapisän Yapiğirsän
She sleeps uyuyor uyir(NS) yuxliğir/uyir
R u looking Bakıyormusun Baxisän Baxiğirsän

iği this part is very typical part of teh Ahiska Dialect

It's pointless to talk about the vocabulary differences, because it varies from region to region.





this is allos what caught my attention, the meskhetian or Ahiska Dialect is a Türkmen Dialect yet on the map the coloured areas are Kypchak dialects. The light green dot above Turkey is were the Ahiska turks used to live it's the same colour as Crimea

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

It sounds like Azeri Turkish the most. However, it still has some similarities with the Eastern Black Sea Region dialects of Turkey, and even some remnants of original Old Anatolian Turkish

[Atabeg]

North eastern Part of Turkey like Kars ardahan & Igdir originaly spoke the same dialect as in Ahiska (u can esspecialy har when u listen to people from posof eventhough its a bit differen't)

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

That is normal, because they were living next to each other, or just in the same area

[Atabeg]

what i find curious are the maps on wikipedia about the turkic languages on every map you see a different coloured spot in outh georgia thats historical Ahiska can anyone explain


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages

the title members

[Atabeg]

I updated this thread!

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I think there is still a dispute about which group Ahiska is in - Oghuz or Qypchaq?

[Atabeg]

Thanks to stalin, we might never find out!

Perhaps it underwent the same as Crimean tatarca, Ottomanificaion of the language & the azeri influence

If you look at the location if Ahiska/Meskhetia wich is in south Georgia it's a great meeting point for Anatolian Turks, Azeris & the Turks of the caucasus & crimea.

The problem is we dont know when they settled there. Some Kypchaks settled in the region after the mongol invasion, the Azeri dynasties allways have conquered some part of georgia, there was even an Atabegdom in the region.

It's sounds more like a oghuz dialect, but so does Crimean tatar nowadays.

there allways will be a ?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Indeed.

By the way, Qypchaqs settled in Georgia before the Mongol invasions too, during the 12th century, when they were called by Georgian rulers to serve as mercenaries against the Muslim Turkish rulers of Anatolia.

[Atabeg]

I suspect they were almost fully assimilated by the Georgians, then again Turks never seem to get completly assimilated

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes, most of them were assimiliated into the Georgians in time.

[Atabeg]

+ I don't think there numbers were than great to make a real impact on the region, in terms of culture & genetics.

the real influx of Turks to South Caucasus was with the Azeri Dynasties, quite some time before the ottomans.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Actually they did have cultural impacts on the region after they became Christians. Some of the "Georgians" and "Armenian" religious buildings in the South Caucasus were built by these Christian Qypchaqs. Linguisticwise, I don't know. But of course the main Turkic presence in the region arrived with the Oghuz.

[Atabeg]

hmmm I allways wonder why they called the georgians teh greatest cultural thieves of the caucasus

I have one more question do you know any other turkic dialect that has simmilar sounds to the Ahiska Dialect i'm esspecialy curious about -iğir for example

English : I'm Going
Turkish : Gidiyorum
Azeri: Gidirem
Ahiska: Gidiğirim

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

LOL ;D Every culture "steals" from other cultures up to an extent

As for your question, I don't have enough knowledge to answer it correctly