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Post by Temüjin on Jul 16, 2007 20:47:45 GMT 3
the first war that i can think of, which was also quite important was the civil war between Ariq-Böke and Qubilai. both got elected as Qaghan, but who was the legitimate one?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 16, 2007 22:49:35 GMT 3
According to the Mongol Yasa, it was Ariq Böke who was the legitimate ruler, because the quriltai which selected Qubilai was made up of only Qubilai's men.
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 17, 2007 20:06:24 GMT 3
so that means it was Qubilais fault that the Mongol empire desintegrated... he and his sucessors should not be considdered Qaghans at all, they were just Chinese emperors of Mongol origin, nothing more...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 20, 2007 0:57:28 GMT 3
That is true. The lineage of legitimate qa'ans, according to the Yasa, ended when Ariq Böke was defeated.
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 27, 2007 23:14:53 GMT 3
the next major clash between two rival Mongol Khans was between Qaidu Khan, who established his own kahnate in the eastern Chaghatayid khanate and fought wars with Qubilai, who eventually defeated him outside Qaraqorum. so, how come the house of Ögödai was no longer in charge of the Il-khanate, which should habe been the Ulus of Ögödai as far as i know. Hülagü was brother and supporter of Qubilai, so he was of the house Tolui, which would rule in the homeland & china.
btw the aim of this thread is to analize the events that contributed to end of the Mongol Empire.
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mwe
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Post by mwe on Oct 23, 2007 21:34:07 GMT 3
The empire was already falling apart. The Qubilia issue just made the divisions official.
The Golden Horde was already basically its own state and had claims over territory held by the Illkhanids. They went to war far from over the fate of Baghdad in 1258 but over border issues and the like.
The invasion of the Middle East took so long because the second major invasion force sat around and plotted getting rid of Mongke.
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Post by Temüjin on Oct 23, 2007 23:19:35 GMT 3
The Golden Horde was already basically its own state and had claims over territory held by the Illkhanids. They went to war far from over the fate of Baghdad in 1258 but over border issues and the like. The invasion of the Middle East took so long because the second major invasion force sat around and plotted getting rid of Mongke. that would be the next civil war, but first i need to know how it came that the house of Ögödai was excluded and two of the four Ulus were ruled by the house of Jochi... |
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mwe
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Post by mwe on Oct 23, 2007 23:27:37 GMT 3
The house of Jochi's exclusion came originally from the death of Jochi which led to Ogodai being appointed, the "rigged" election of Guyuk, and the fact that Batu supported someone else (Mongke) and the issue of Jochi's paternity didn't help either.
The house of Tolui had gotten control of most of the veteran ethnically Mongol Tumens and were supported by the House of Jochi (under Batu) which was not a fan of the rule of Guyuk and backed the House of Tolui in taking power. So they did have military support in getting rid of the house of Ogodai.
In response the house of Ogodai loosing power the commander Guyuk put in charge Elijigtei (the commander of the Mongol force in the Middle East) ceased offensive actions and began to plan the overthrow of Mongke until Batu put him to death.
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Post by elbandito on Jul 29, 2008 7:52:32 GMT 3
Although not as massive, the later civil war between the various khans and nobles in the Mongolia proper after the overthrowing of the Yuan dynasty was very messy indeed. Average khan pretender had about 9 months of lifespan hahaha. There were plenty who aspired the throne and some didn' t even came from the Golden family of Chingis. Such as the descendants of Khasar (older bro of Temujin) for example.
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