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Post by davetatch on Nov 24, 2007 7:53:51 GMT 3
I’m referring to Chinggis Kahn’s anda.
Does anyone know where I can find information about Jamugha’s background, family etc? How did he know Ong Kahn? Information about the Jaradan clan?
thanks, Dave
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 24, 2007 18:06:51 GMT 3
According to the Secret History of the Mongols, he was the son of Qara Qada'an from the Jadaran clan of the Jajirat tribe of the Mongols. The SHoM gives his family origins this way:
Jamuqa -> Qara Qada'an -> Buribulčiru -> Tugu'udai -> Jadaradai -> Jajiradai -> his father unknown, his mother was from the Jarči'ut Adaŋqan of the Uriaŋha tribe, who joined Temüjin's ancestor Bodončar while she was pregnant.
Appearently, To'oril Qan (Oŋ Qan) knew Jamuqa before, as Temüjin's anda. After Temüjin was attacked by the Merkit people, Temüjin went to To'oril Qan to seek help, and To'oril Qan ordered him to send a message to Jamuqa to send troops before marching on the Merkit.
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Post by davetatch on Nov 25, 2007 11:43:46 GMT 3
Thanks Ihsan Erkoc,
I read the secret history and wondered why To'oril referred to as "younger brother"? He couldn't be saying he's Temujin's younger brother because Jamuqa is older than him. Could To'oril and Jamuqa have had the same father?
Do you know if anything else is known about Jamuqa? I understand too that their family lived close to Temujin's. Do you know where abouts was the Jaradan tribe located?
cheers, Dave
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 27, 2007 0:53:18 GMT 3
I read the secret history and wondered why To'oril referred to as "younger brother"? He couldn't be saying he's Temujin's younger brother because Jamuqa is older than him. Could To'oril and Jamuqa have had the same father? That saying is probably symbolic rather than factual. Do you know if anything else is known about Jamuqa? Not very much, I guess. I understand too that their family lived close to Temujin's. Do you know where abouts was the Jaradan tribe located? Unfortunately, I have no information Cheers, Ýhsan
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Post by davetatch on Nov 27, 2007 1:59:44 GMT 3
that's cool Ýhsan,
thanks for your help.
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Post by snafu on Nov 27, 2007 9:01:55 GMT 3
Rashid ad-Din wrote that Jamukha had a troubled life. He was deserted by his parents as a boy and suffered greatly at the hands of the Merkits. At one point he was robbed of all his possessions and left with only 30 followers. Eventually he submitted to the Merkit chief Tokto'a Beki and became his slave. But at some point Jamukha and his 30 followers were able to force Tokto'a to return all of their stolen goods and give Jamukha his freedom.
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Post by davetatch on Nov 27, 2007 12:01:19 GMT 3
Thanks Snafu,
Where did you find out about that?
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Post by snafu on Dec 1, 2007 5:04:48 GMT 3
I think there's a biography of Jamukha in Rashid Ad-Din's Jami al-Tawarikh (Collected Chronicles). Unfortunately I can't read it because it hasn't been translated to English. But parts of it have been mentioned in other books about Genghis Khan.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 1, 2007 21:26:25 GMT 3
No, it has been translated to English and I have a copy of it. The identification tag of it is:
Rashiduddin Fazlullah, Jami’u’t-Tawarikh – Compendium of Chronicles, (trans. W. M. Thackston), 3 Volumes, Harvard University, 1998.
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Post by davetatch on Dec 2, 2007 14:53:01 GMT 3
that's cool, which volume contains information about Jamugha's biography and do you know where I can buy it from?
Thanks, Dave
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 3, 2007 20:31:03 GMT 3
You can find it in every big university library I guess - that is how I found it It must be the first volume which has information about Jamuqa.
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Post by snafu on Dec 3, 2007 21:10:00 GMT 3
No, it has been translated to English and I have a copy of it. The identification tag of it is: Rashiduddin Fazlullah, Jami’u’t-Tawarikh – Compendium of Chronicles, (trans. W. M. Thackston), 3 Volumes, Harvard University, 1998. Really? Wow. Thanks for the info. I think the last time I tried looking for it in English was before 1998, so that explains why I missed it. Nice to see it's been translated.
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Post by davetatch on Dec 5, 2007 17:08:17 GMT 3
I just found out too that Jamugha's father was actually the son of Qara-qada'an (page 8 - The History and the life of Chinggis Khan, Urgunge Onon)
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Post by Bor Chono on Dec 6, 2007 14:24:22 GMT 3
Jamuh or Jamuhai word "Muhai""Mukhai"="ugly"! I mean a good name for Anti-hero.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 9, 2007 2:17:21 GMT 3
And what does the prefix Ja- stands for?
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