the Qurultai, who was in?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by Temujin at November 13, 2004)
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now that i've studied the electoral system of the HRE a bit more i noticed that before the introduction of the electoral system it was quite sorted which nobles and clerics were allowed to elect the new emperor, so I wodner which Mongols were allowed in the Quriltai to vote and how big the percentage must have been, or did the election even had to be all in favour of the new Qa'an?


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(Originially posted by me at November 13, 2004)
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Hmm, someone knowledged on the issue would also help me compare how Turkic Toy and Mongol Khuriltai operated.


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(Originially posted by Chono at November 22, 2004)
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What is HRE? AFAIK Khuriltai-s were allowed only for the people of the khaghan's dynasty. During Hamag Mongol Ulus it was the children and grandchildren of Khabul Khan, during Mongol empire only children of Temujin's four sons.


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(Originially posted by Temujin at November 22, 2004)
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HRE is Holy Roman Empire.

interesting, so only direct relatives were allowed. does that also include brothers of the current ruler? like temujins brothers?


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(Originially posted by Chono at November 24, 2004)
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Until 1206 when the empire officially was founded not only brothers but everyone significant enough could attend closed meetings with Temujin and discuss matters of war and peace.

After 1206, only the brethren of Oelun's sons were declared the Golden dynasty and everybody else were cut off from Khuriltai.


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(Originially posted by me at November 26, 2004)
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Until 1206 when the empire officially was founded not only brothers but everyone significant enough could attend closed meetings with Temujin and discuss matters of war and peace.

Same with Turkic Toy.

[chinzo]

I though u guys better watch latest movie about chinggis khaan

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Which one? Do you have a link?

[Nomad (Daz)]

admin said:

(Originially posted by Temujin at November 13, 2004)
----

now that i've studied the electoral system of the HRE a bit more i noticed that before the introduction of the electoral system it was quite sorted which nobles and clerics were allowed to elect the new emperor, so I wodner which Mongols were allowed in the Quriltai to vote and how big the percentage must have been, or did the election even had to be all in favour of the new Qa'an?


----------------


(Originially posted by me at November 13, 2004)
----

Hmm, someone knowledged on the issue would also help me compare how Turkic Toy and Mongol Khuriltai operated.


----------------


(Originially posted by Chono at November 22, 2004)
----

What is HRE? AFAIK Khuriltai-s were allowed only for the people of the khaghan's dynasty. During Hamag Mongol Ulus it was the children and grandchildren of Khabul Khan, during Mongol empire only children of Temujin's four sons.


----------------


(Originially posted by Temujin at November 22, 2004)
----

HRE is Holy Roman Empire.

interesting, so only direct relatives were allowed. does that also include brothers of the current ruler? like temujins brothers?


----------------


(Originially posted by Chono at November 24, 2004)
----

Until 1206 when the empire officially was founded not only brothers but everyone significant enough could attend closed meetings with Temujin and discuss matters of war and peace.

After 1206, only the brethren of Oelun's sons were declared the Golden dynasty and everybody else were cut off from Khuriltai.


----------------


(Originially posted by me at November 26, 2004)
----

Until 1206 when the empire officially was founded not only brothers but everyone significant enough could attend closed meetings with Temujin and discuss matters of war and peace.

Same with Turkic Toy.

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Turik also have Kurultai it is not someones know how its a tradition of the rulers. Toy translates as party or the gathering of people! Could be wedding, death, celebration or Nauryz.

[Nomad (Daz)]

later to the Kurultai was invited 3 BI (They are the head of the 3 zhuzes ) and maybe some of the war lords.

[Bor Chono]

Kings+Queens, Warlords+wife,...also if any VIP is around!

[Saran]

The Great Huriltai (now we call is Huraldai) was only for the golden family, their most trusted aristocrats & warlords. Like Chinggis Khaan, his mother, siblings, 4 queens, uncles, 4 sons + their sons, 9 warlords, and a few other men.

[Boorchi Noyan]

hmm what about shamans?

[Saran]

yullugtegin said:

hmm what about shamans?

The state shaman was one of the few trusted men to take part in the Huraldai ;D. Like Tev Tengri of Chinggis Khaan...

[Boorchi Noyan]

yeah we saw what Tebtengri did to meet all that assurance.

[Saran]

yullugtegin said:

yeah we saw what Tebtengri did to meet all that assurance.

Strange, Tev Tengri was so close to temujin and was so trusted. However, the Khaan had to kill him, so sad . Why? U know the reason? I read that Tev Tengri himself wanted to become the Khaan, so Temujin killed him in a very complicated way as he was afraid of the shaman's curses

[Boorchi Noyan]

Temujin was afraid of the Blue Sky that's why he couldn't touch Kokochu. Kokochu used this well for himself. He first abased Khassar and Great Khan blamed Khassar, his own brother, in that subject. If Hoelun Eke couldn't reach, maybe Khassar would have been punished for nothing. Then Kokochu and his brothers spyed on and cheated Temüge's men and when he wanted his men back, Kokochu and brothers beat Temüge's delegate and sent back on horseback. Then Temüge rode to Kokochu's tents with his men but he was forced to knee in front of Kokochu and apologized. This was enough for all and Borte again, telled the Khaan not to wait until Kokochu kills him. She said "Yesterday Khassar, today Temüge, why not tomorrow you?". And these words were a signature for the last of Teb Tengri Kokochu... Let him go to hell!!!

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

The strife between Chinggis Khan and Kököchü Tebtengri was purely politicaly based. We are all aware that Kököchü wanted to become the Khan/Khaghan.

[Boorchi Noyan]

admin said:

The strife between Chinggis Khan and Kököchü Tebtengri was purely politicaly based. We are all aware that Kököchü wanted to become the Khan/Khaghan.

Of course, but I think the events I wrote became good excuses for the death of Kokochu...

[Saran]

yullugtegin said:

admin said:

The strife between Chinggis Khan and K?h?engri was purely politicaly based. We are all aware that K?h?ed to become the Khan/Khaghan.

Of course, but I think the events I wrote became good excuses for the death of Kokochu...

There's this novel by a French writer, it can be translated as "Blue Flag of the Mongolia" (I can't remember the writer name as I read that book some 10 years ago) and in this book the conflict between Hohochu and Temujin is quite well shown. The book is about a prince of some Naiman or similar tribe, who was caught by the Mongols during a war. He then was given to Tev Tengri and the shaman gives the boy education etc... I have to find that book again and read it.