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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 21, 2006 14:03:11 GMT 3
Chinggis Khan (Genghis Khan) is one of the most well-known figures in World History. He had and has many haters among the World but he also has many fans and appreciaters too, especially in Central Asia and among Steppe History lovers. Because of personal and/or political-ideological reasons, many people have claimed the great Mongol ruler Chinggis Khan as belonging to their nation/contry/people/ethnic group. Here are some of them: Chinese: Because the Mongols ruling China became the Yuán (Yüen) 元 Dynasty, Chinggis Khan is supposed to be this dynasty's founder. Because the Mongols ruled China and because the Mongols established a dynasty in this region, the official Chinese history view claims that Chinggis Khan and the Mongols are a member of the Zhōngguórén 中国人 (Person from the Middle Country). This point is the key arguement part of the bitter fights between modern Mongols and Chinese. Kazaks: Because some clans of the modern Kazak people are descendents of pre-13th and 13th century peoples living in Mongolia, the Kazaks claim that Chinggis Khan was Turkic (specificially a Kazak; but the Kazak people was formed several centuries later). Turks: There are some Turks in Turkey who claim that Chinggis Khan was ethnicially Turkic. This theory was first established by the Bashkort-Turkish historian Ahmet Zeki Velidî Togan but it wasn't accepted by most Turks. Today there is a small group in Turkey, mostly from the Pan-Turkists, who support this theory. According to them, Chinggis Khan's ancestors belonged to the Shatuo Tujue. Please post any such theories if you know  |
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 22, 2006 0:49:14 GMT 3
I think Chinese Theory is really silly. What is it? A man rules over the chinese so he is chinese. I did not hear sth more silly...
I even do not give importance to Kazak theory.
I think the claims of zeka velidi togan must be searched. I mean the delegate of China comig to Chinggis and claiming he is Shatuo Tujue.
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Post by snafu on Aug 22, 2006 3:43:47 GMT 3
Don't forget the Japanese legend that says Genghis Khan was really the famous hero Minamoto Yoshisune (brother of the first Kamakura Shogun, Yoritomo) who, in some stories, fled to Mongolia after a failed rebellion against Yoritomo in the 1180's. It's definitely one of the stranger Genghis Khan legends.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 22, 2006 9:01:54 GMT 3
I think Chinese Theory is really silly. What is it? A man rules over the chinese so he is chinese. I did not hear sth more silly... Yes but his "Chineseness" in political, not ethnical. Chinese think he was a Zhōngguórén 中国人 (Person from the Middle Country), not a Hànrén 汉人 (Person from the Hàn ethnicity). There is a difference between these two. Anyone who lived/lives in China and anyone who was a subject of/is a citizen of China was considered like a Zhōngguórén 中国人. The Chinese history view reminds me of the Iranians who claim the Turkish dynasties ruling Iran as Iranians. Like the Seljûqids, Safavids, Qajarids, etc ;D |
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 24, 2006 12:57:33 GMT 3
I think Chinese Theory is really silly. What is it? A man rules over the chinese so he is chinese. I did not hear sth more silly... Yes but his "Chineseness" in political, not ethnical. Chinese think he was a Zhōngguórén 中国人 (Person from the Middle Country), not a Hànrén 汉人 (Person from the Hàn ethnicity). There is a difference between these two. Anyone who lived/lives in China and anyone who was a subject of/is a citizen of China was considered like a Zhōngguórén 中国人. The Chinese history view reminds me of the Iranians who claim the Turkish dynasties ruling Iran as Iranians. Like the Seljûqids, Safavids, Qajarids, etc ;D well people allways want to be part of greatness esspecially persians |
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Post by nanman on Feb 23, 2008 4:37:11 GMT 3
We Southern Chinese that know who we are never claimed Chinghis or Kublai to be our Emperor. He got the Northerners to write this history for him.
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Post by suren911 on May 11, 2008 17:40:25 GMT 3
Dig this, Hitler made a claim that Mongols were of Caucasian descendent, and specifically Germanic for their massive conquests. Uh huh.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on May 11, 2008 23:41:23 GMT 3
Dig this, Hitler made a claim that Mongols were of Caucasian descendent, and specifically Germanic for their massive conquests. Uh huh. What you mean of caucasian now? Please, not use that american term.  Well, Hitler never said that Mongols were Germanic. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 12, 2008 23:46:49 GMT 3
She means "White Race".
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Post by Verinen Paroni on May 13, 2008 12:27:29 GMT 3
I guessed, so I think that this term is outdated. Americans are not so smart concerning racial theories. |
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Post by Temüjin on May 13, 2008 21:04:34 GMT 3
i don't think Hitler thought good of Mongols, he always used to refer to the Soviets as Red Horde and compared them to barbarians invading europe and Geermany would save europe from them and so on...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 13, 2008 22:50:38 GMT 3
Hitler's racial classification put the Mongols and Turkic peoples among "lowest inferiors", the only exception being the Turks in Turkey, whom they considered "Whites". That's why the Turks from Turkey who went to Germany before or during WWII always tell they were welcomed warmly and not discriminated, while we know how bad other Turkic prisoners of war, for example, were discriminated.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on May 13, 2008 22:57:48 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 14, 2008 12:29:30 GMT 3
Interesting indeed.
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Post by Subu'atai on May 24, 2008 15:37:27 GMT 3
There was no hun until the hunnic empire, no turk until the gokturk empire, no mongol until the mongolian empire. I'm tired of all this claims, it's like two brothers claiming their own dad over themselves "he's my dad not yours!" - it's so bloody stupid I can't believe we allowed ourselves to be so divided sometimes.
We were all huns once, we were all turks once, we were all mongols once. For blood's sake under Tengri our birthplace is the same freaking mountains.
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