Military Terms in Mongolian

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by me at September 10, 2004)
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This was posted by Chono at the old AE forum, fortunately I saved it before (I also did a few organisation).


MILITARY TERMS IN MONGOLIAN:


Divisions:[/u]

Arbat - troop of ten
Zuut (Jigaut) - troop of one hundred
Myanggat - troop of one thousand
Tümen - troop of ten thousand
Ikhe Tsereg - army


Units:[/u]

Tsereg - soldier
Morit Tsereg - cavalry
Yavgan Tsereg - infantry
Shadar Tsereg - imperial troops, same as:
Heshigten (not just Keshik) - imperial bodyguard, which divided into:
Hebteul - night guards
Horchin - seems like they guarded the perimeter of the emperor's ordon (horde)
Torguud - the rest of heshigten
Uruud (Urugud), Mangud - two famous tribes, from the SHoM
Mangudai - just a name, supposed to mean "of the tribe Mangud"


Ranks:

Nöhör/Nukher - some noyon's personal guard type warriors
Noyon - noble (someone who has people/troops that he "owns")
Taish - second in command after the Khan (not Khagan) after corrupted into taij - a title close to, say, marquis
Bahadur - probably meant general, otherwise, distinguished warrior, the elite, a veteran


Armaments:[/u]

Ild - sword
Selem - sable
Num (u read like ou, not like in sun) - bow
Sum - arrow
Jad - lance
Duulga - helmet
Bambai - shield
Huyag - armor
Saadag - cuirass
Zev (Jebe) - the tip of an arrow
Agt - cavalry horses


Actions:

Baildah - to fight
Hatgaldah - melee
Chavchildah - to fence (with sables)
Harvah - to fire arrows...


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(Originially posted by me at September 10, 2004)
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Now, I have a few questions:

1) Is it Tumen or Tümen?

2) In most of the books about the Mongols, I saw Keshik instead of Heshigten and I realised there Mongolian words have two different forms of transcription with the Latin alphabet, why is this?

3) I read in Colin Falconer's Silk Road that there was a vanguard/suicide unit named Mangudai. Did Mangudais existed as a unit? If yes, were they all from the clan of Manggut/Mangkhut?

4) Is it Noyon or Noyan? Temüjin in AE told me that Noyan is the plural form of Noyon, is it true? In most of the works, I've seen Noyan being used more.

5) What are the old and new versions of Bahadur? Are Baghatur (old), Ba'atur (new) and Baatar all correct? Why is the name of Mongolia's capital Ulaanbaatar instead of Ulaan Ba'atur?

Thanks in advance.


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(Originially posted by Temujin at September 11, 2004)
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Now, I have a few questions:

1) Is it Tumen or Tümen?

proably Tümen, since English don't have the ü

2) In most of the books about the Mongols, I saw Keshik instead of Heshigten and I realised there Mongolian words have two different forms of transcription with the Latin alphabet, why is this?

well, language reforms, Wade Giles and pinyin for example...we also don't sue the same language as 500 years before

3) I read in Colin Falconer's Silk Road that there was a vanguard/suicide unit named Mangudai. Did Mangudais existed as a unit? If yes, were they all from the clan of Manggut/Mangkhut?

well, the Uru'ut and maghut were tribes that acted as vanguards because they were so warlike...but only in the early army of Temujin

4) Is it Noyon or Noyan? Temüjin in AE told me that Noyan is the plural form of Noyon, is it true? In most of the works, I've seen Noyan being used more.

I'mr eally not usre, I do't knwo Mongolian

5) What are the old and new versions of Bahadur? Are Baghatur (old), Ba'atur (new) and Baatar all correct? Why is the name of Mongolia's capital Ulaanbaatar instead of Ulaan Ba'atur?

see point 2)


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(Originially posted by me at September 14, 2004)
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Ok, thanx

Btw, welcome


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(Originially posted by Chono at September 25, 2004)
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Hi Ihsan, let me try to answer:

1. You are right, it's tümen, instead of tumen. I was too sloppy

2. H in heshigten is meant to be the throat "ch" sound in german. I believe Kheshigten is the correct version, it implies a person, or a group of people. Kheshig means something like "a gift bestowed on someone". I never saw the word keshik being used in mongolian instead of kheshigten.

3. Colin Falconer probably incorrectly interpreted the SHoM. I never heard about any specific troops called mangudai. There's some legendary events in there that could've given rise to such speculations.

4. Noyan might be a more correct version. The modern version would be noyon. Or just noyn

5. Old version - baghadur or baghatur or baghator or baghador, there's no difference. Ba'atur... I don't know if anybody uses this word, in eastern mongolian languages it's ba'atar, in oirat dialects it's ba'atr. So Ulaanbaatar would be a somewhat correct transcription of the word from cyrillic to latin. At least, it's better than Ulan Bator.


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(Originially posted by me at September 25, 2004)
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Thank you Chono

Ba'atur... I don't know if anybody uses this word

Weird, my version of SHoM translated by Ahmet Temir has Ba'atur (for example, Sube'etai-Ba'atur).

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by Temujin at September 25, 2004)
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I read on various internet sites that Orlok means somethign like general, is that true?

and what are the princes of Chinggis Qaan called? Qan or another title?


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(Originially posted by Lannes at September 26, 2004)
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Divisions:

[/u]

Arbat - troop of ten
Zuut (Jigaut) - troop of one hundred
Myanggat - troop of one thousand
Tümen - troop of ten thousand
Ikhe Tsereg - army[/quote][/quote]
What ranks commanded each of these?

For example, in Ancient Sparta: a Demi-Phyle is commanded by a Demiphylarch, and Phyle is commanded by a Phylarch, an Anomotia is commanded by a Enomotarch, a Pentekostys is commanded by a Pentekoster, and a Lochos is commanded by a Lochagos.(Full army commanded by a King or specially appointed officer.)


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(Originially posted by Chono at October 2, 2004)
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Well it's really ok to use any version, I think The language has went a long way since the times the vertical script was adopted.

CK's sons had the title of Khan. Later on their descendants all had titles of Taij (among mongols that is). There was also the title Jinong, I think it was reserved for sons of the respective Khans that ruled at the time. I'm not sure though Around XVI-XVII century there was also a title Hong-taij, I think it was designed for the guy who inherited the line of Kubilai.

Orlokh was a title used by CK to elevate the heads of his administration. Had nine of them, most were military leaders, but not all. Later the title was not officially in use but very respected ministers (said) could be called like this, to show how outstanding they are.

Arbat - Arbat un darga
Zuut - Jigaut un darga
Myanggat - Myanggan un noyon
Tümen - Tümen un noyon


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(Originially posted by Temujin at October 2, 2004)
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ah cool....so do we know these nine Orlokhs by name?


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(Originially posted by a guest at October 10, 2004)
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What did the 13th-century Mongols call their main army units (the Mongol light cavalryman), like did they have special names for their light cavalry units (similar to how the Tujue call their light cavalry Atligh)? If not, what is light cavalryman in Mongolian? Also, did the 13th-century Mongols have special names for their regular heavy cavalrymen (I'm not talking about the Kheshigten, or Imperial Guards)? If not, what is heavy cavalryman in Mongolian?


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(Originially posted by me at October 10, 2004)
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Note that Atlïgh means "Horseman", I use the term to differentiate them from the Tujue heavy cavalry. The Yarïqlïgh Atlïgh (heavy cavalry) of Tujue, OTOH, are not described as a separate unit in their inscriptions, no such name is found, I created that term but we know that they existed as a separate unit.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by LoS at October 28, 2004)
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What does SHoM mean?


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(Originially posted by Chono at October 28, 2004)
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Guys, sorry for not replying in long time. The nine orlog (kh) said would be:

Zelme, of urianhai
Chighu (Chughu) mergen, of zurchid
Shigihutug the tatar
Boghorchi (Boorchi), of arulad
Jebe (Zev), of besud
Har Hiru, of oirad
Sorhan Shira, of suldusun
Borohul
Muhulai, of jalair

I don't really know what 13 century mongols called their cavalry. I think they called cavalry just soldiers, tsereg, and had a special name for infantry. The word for heavy cavalrymen was probly the above mentioned word baghatur. That word translates something like "knight".

SHoM is Secret History of Mongols. Probably the best source on Chinggis Khaan and his times.


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(Originially posted by LoS at October 28, 2004)
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Thanks... But it's not so secret if you guys know about it. >.>

And why is my title "He"?


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(Originially posted by me at October 28, 2004)
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And why is my title "He"?

Er means 'Private', 'Warrior' or 'Male' in Old Turkic, all the members with less then 50 posts are Ers. You can check the Ranks thread in the Announcements and Questions Board


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(Originially posted by LoS at October 28, 2004)
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Well, it's "he" in German.


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(Originially posted by me at October 29, 2004)
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Interesting, I didn't know that

Èr 二 means "Second" in Chinese


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(Originially posted by LoS at October 31, 2004)
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Traditional?

"Er" is also used in the place of "Ehhh" or "Uhhh" in English, sometimes, too.

Such a versatile word.


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(Originially posted by me at October 31, 2004)
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In Mandarin; I don't know it's version in Old/Traditional Chinese.


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(Originially posted by Chono at November 8, 2004)
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Was secret, so chinese stole it during Ming and it was found in XIXth century. Secrecy kept for most of the time huh?

Interestingly, er means male in mongolian.


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(Originially posted by me at November 8, 2004)
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Same with Turkic Another common thing between the two languages


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(Originially posted by Chono at November 10, 2004)
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How about female? We say em. er male, em female.


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(Originially posted by me at November 10, 2004)
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Hmm... Er isn't used for "male" in Turkish (Anatolian) anymore, we say Erkek for male and Kadýn/Diþi (þ = sh) for female.

[Bor Chono]

guys forgot one weapon :
Naiman talta Muna (=8 side, hammer like thing)

Nukher=Huleg=Friend
Huleg baatar=Knight
Ulaan baatar=Red hero
Harvaach=Archer
Mergen(=Wise) Harvaach=Elite Archer
Hund(=heavy) Morin Tsereg=Heavy cavalry

Zev (Jebe) - the tip of an arrow-yes but also means "Cold" "Ice"
Part of Manchu people were "Harchin" & "Horchin"
Harchin=watcher Har(=see, black)
Horchin=night watcher Hor(=poison, sleep)
+chin means "+person"

Taishi, Van, Gunju, Ujin -many tite are chinese.

[tadamson]

Some minor updates...

MILITARY TERMS IN MONGOLIAN:


Divisions:

Arbat - troop of ten
Zuut (Jigaut) - troop of one hundred
Myanggat - troop of one thousand ** a political unit of 1000 households, not an exact number of men **
Tümen - troop of ten thousand ** actualy means 'division' any large unit. Temuljin set up permanent units of 10,000 housholds. Field strength was typically 5,000-7,000 men **
Ikhe Tsereg - army


Units:

Tsereg - soldier ** from cherig, not originally Mongol term, used primaraly for non Mongol troops **
Morit Tsereg - cavalry
Yavgan Tsereg - infantry
Shadar Tsereg - imperial troops, same as:

The best English term to use for keshik is 'household', it refers to the personal following of a khan, prince etc.. Temuljins was responsible for procurement, storage and issue of lannces, shields, artillery and arrows. There were also military units included (night guard, arrow guard, day guard and heroes - multiple units of the last two). By Temuljins death, his included 18 mingams.
Heshigten (not just Keshik) - imperial bodyguard, which divided into:
Hebteul - night guards
Horchin - seems like they guarded the perimeter of the emperor's ordon (horde) ** the actual bodyguards who attended the leader **
Torguud - the rest of heshigten
Uruud (Urugud), Mangud - two famous tribes, from the SHoM
Mangudai - just a name, supposed to mean "of the tribe Mangud" ** also old Mongol 'god belonging' used to describe long range scouts. Sadly many western historians assume that the name must mean suicide troop or some such and prattle rubbish **


Ranks:

Nöhör/Nukher - some noyon's personal guard type warriors
Noyon - noble (someone who has people/troops that he "owns") ** in Temuljins time this was limited to members of the ruling clan, later others were raised to this level **
Taish - second in command after the Khan (not Khagan) after corrupted into taij - a title close to, say, marquis
Bahadur - probably meant general, otherwise, distinguished warrior, the elite, a veteran ** not 'general', not a rank as such though many generals were bahadur, literally hero, the title was honoriffic and could be bestowed on any persion who showd great bravery in battle. It also applied to members of the bahadur unit of the keshik. Later it was expanded to be a generic name for elite guard units **

[tadamson]

"What did the 13th-century Mongols call their main army units (the Mongol light cavalryman), like did they have special names for their light cavalry units (similar to how the Tujue call their light cavalry Atligh)? If not, what is light cavalryman in Mongolian? Also, did the 13th-century Mongols have special names for their regular heavy cavalrymen (I'm not talking about the Kheshigten, or Imperial Guards)? If not, what is heavy cavalryman in Mongolian?"

Like most Nomad armies the Mongols didn't differenciate between 'light' and 'heavy' cavalry. All troops were expected to 'dance' if front of the enemy then form up in dense attack columns. Some units were better equipped, particuarly in the East, but the operated in more or less identical ways.

[tadamson]

re 'secret' history..

A better translation would have been 'confidential history', it was so titled because id was for official use only and not to be released to the public. Probably written during the early days of the Yuan, we are lucky to have Ming copies that include both the Mongol text and a Chinese transliteration (so for the characters we know the 13th C pronounciation of we get how the Mongol script was spoken).