|
Post by Atabeg on Feb 7, 2007 16:08:16 GMT 3
So who invented the wings was it the Tatars or the europeans
The winged Hussars are verry know
but I have also seen winged Tatars uhlans
so who was it
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 7, 2007 20:14:07 GMT 3
Good question. I guess it was the Eastern Europeans (Poles, Croatians or Magyars?) who invented the Winged Hussars. I'm sure our dear Temujin Shad knows the answer
|
|
|
Post by Temüjin on Feb 7, 2007 21:13:41 GMT 3
the wings were first worn by Ottoman Delis of course, the term Hussar (Gussar) comes from Serbian, maybe aca can confirm it. the winged Crimean Tatar Oglans copied the Poles from what i know. Venetians also had Winged Hussars from locals of their balkan provinces. not sure Serbian and Hungarian Hussars ever wore wings.
|
|
|
Post by Atabeg on Feb 7, 2007 23:01:37 GMT 3
I found some pics Deli according to Nicholas de Nicoloy (1567) It is a drawing of mirza Ali Giray didn't the venetians have stradiotis?
|
|
|
Post by Temüjin on Feb 7, 2007 23:09:20 GMT 3
yep, that's what i was referign to:
|
|
|
Post by Atabeg on Feb 7, 2007 23:15:02 GMT 3
wow nice picture is that a deli?
|
|
|
Post by Temüjin on Feb 7, 2007 23:30:45 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by Temüjin on Feb 8, 2007 23:37:07 GMT 3
i saw your discussion with ataman on AE, sorry for being unprecise about the Venetian Stradiottis... anyways, does he really claim Poles used wings before Ottoman Delis did? because thats wrong. the only thing that's true is that Crimean Tatars adopted the wings with wooden frame as he calls it from Poles. but still, ottomans were first, unless Serbs used it first, but definately not Poles, no way. the wooden frame for the wing surely was design made by Poles but the overall the long lanced cavalry with wigns was an Ottoman or possibly Serbian invention. Poles just improved on what existed on the balkans, the Polish Winged Hussar was not a genuine invention, just a copy and improvement of what already existed on the Balkans in different froms, like the Ak 47 was improved copy from the StG44. i have evidence on long Lances, armour, wings, bascially everything Polish Hussars had being first used on the Balkans.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 9, 2007 0:33:48 GMT 3
That is very interesting!
|
|
|
Post by Atabeg on Feb 15, 2007 1:16:29 GMT 3
i saw your discussion with ataman on AE, sorry for being unprecise about the Venetian Stradiottis... anyways, does he really claim Poles used wings before Ottoman Delis did? because thats wrong. the only thing that's true is that Crimean Tatars adopted the wings with wooden frame as he calls it from Poles. but still, ottomans were first, unless Serbs used it first, but definately not Poles, no way. the wooden frame for the wing surely was design made by Poles but the overall the long lanced cavalry with wigns was an Ottoman or possibly Serbian invention. Poles just improved on what existed on the balkans, the Polish Winged Hussar was not a genuine invention, just a copy and improvement of what already existed on the Balkans in different froms, like the Ak 47 was improved copy from the StG44. i have evidence on long Lances, armour, wings, bascially everything Polish Hussars had being first used on the Balkans. hmm i see tnx ;D
|
|
|
Post by sharshuvuu on Jun 30, 2008 2:37:14 GMT 3
Sorry to be posting on this thread a year and a half late, but I just joined the forum. Ottomans must be right; the Poles seem to have been those who adopted the wings most enthusiastically of all Europeans.
"Husar" or "Gusar" means "gooseherd"; it would no doubt be understood in that sense in any Slavic language. In Serbian, however, it has also acquired the meaning "brigand," a word applied to Serbian light cavalry who fought a sort of guerrilla war against the Ottomans and moved to the Kingdom of Hungary to escape Turkish rule. The Hungarians picked up the word, which they have to write "huszár" (if written "husar," the Hungarian will pronouce it to rhyme approx. with English "pusher,"; the German must write it with a double s; otherwise he will pronounce it to rhyme approx. with English "boozer."
The Hungarian army absorbed and then generated light cav. units on the model of these Serbian formations. (Another theory derives the word from Hung. húsz 'twenty', on the theory that the units originally consisted of only twenty men.) The Hungarian military was much imitated by Western armies in the 16th-18th centuries (that's where the necktie comes from!); soon Western armies had their own hussars. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth came to apply the name to heavy, rather than light, cavalry units.
The Husars were glamorous, in dashing uniforms, regarded as brave, unruly, devil-may-care soldiers, seducers of beautiful women, &c &c. In most countries they achieved this image without the help of wings, but the Poles in particular equipped them with the decorative wings. As far as I know, not even Polish husars ever became airborne and attacked their enemies from the skies.
Sharshuvuu
|
|