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Post by arnewise12 on Jun 17, 2009 9:16:28 GMT 3
Azeriz and qashqai doent count as turkmens, they are assimilated persians that speak a turkish langugae nothing more, they are not turks,
I wont say true turkmen, but those who remained their turkmen tradition and langugae most is the turkmen of central asia which includes turkmens of iran and afghanistan.
But of course salar of china , iraqi turkmens and syrian turkmens counts a part of the turkmen diaspora, they belong to turkmenistan and if I was in charge I would brought them home form foreign lands if they wanted to.
We turkmens actually talk about our brothers that have gone away to foreign lands, and we wish to unite with them, there was always a special saying in ashgabats radio during soviet period and in radio free europe , saying, "Bir Ykbal Bir Turkmen" meaning one desitny one turkmen, meaning that they wished that all turkmens were under one goverment and shared their destiny together.
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Post by ALTAR on Jun 17, 2009 10:54:33 GMT 3
Azeriz and qashqai doent count as turkmens, they are assimilated persians that speak a turkish langugae nothing more, they are not turks, Azeris and Qashqai's are majorly Turk and descended from Oghuz tribes. Qashqai had their own accent which is closer to Azerbaijan Turkish. However, they are bilingual, they can speak Persian because the official language of Iran is Persian. Speaking Persian doesnt make people Persian or Iranian. Azeris or Qashqai aren't assimilated and its impossible to assimilate them. Because their population is huge and they protect their own Turk language, culture and other elements. For more info: www.qashqai.net/history.html www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/Qashqais/Qashqais.htmlThe Qashqai are one of tribes of migratory herders in Iran. Not really a tribe exactly but rather a tribal confederation of people sharing closely related dialects and ethnic identity. The Qashqai are primarily descended from Turkoman or Azeri/Ersari tribes. They speak a language that is in the Southern Azeri/Ersari language family. intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2008/01/iran-qashqai-tribe.html Look at Ahmedinejad, the president of Iran also spoke Azeri Turkish with people in Tabriz. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPMOjGbeobU I accepted that there are some Iranian tribes(Luri, Bakhtiari etc.) among Qashqai people. However, they are mainly Turk.
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Post by nomadi on Jun 17, 2009 11:47:55 GMT 3
I really think azeris are not Turk.Azeris are descendents of Pahlawis
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 17, 2009 11:52:41 GMT 3
LOL he sounds funny ;D ;D
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 17, 2009 20:18:33 GMT 3
is Ahmedinedshah actually Azeri? soemone said he was Talysh. anyways, is the Turkish word Günayden (good morning) composed of Gün and Ay (Sun & Moon)?
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Post by nomadi on Jun 17, 2009 20:35:13 GMT 3
Gun-Aydin ( Day light-well "
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Post by ALTAR on Jun 17, 2009 20:36:48 GMT 3
is Ahmedinedshah actually Azeri? soemone said he was Talysh. anyways, is the Turkish word Günayden (good morning) composed of Gün and Ay (Sun & Moon)? He isn't an Azeri. His family is from Garmsar, a city in the Semnan region. Its southeast part of Tehran. Have a look at there: maps.google.com/maps?q=garmsar&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla In Wikipedia, they wrote that he is ethnically Talysh. However, Garmsar isnot a region which populated with Talysh. Talysh people mainly live in the northerastern parts of South Azerbaijan in Iran. It could be wrong info. In my opinion he's a Persian. I think Azadan can help about to make clear this statement. I actually wonder how he learned speaking Turkish ;D He said Günaydin it means Good morning in Turkish(Both Azerbaijan & Turkey) as you mentioned.
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Post by sarmat on Jun 18, 2009 0:33:59 GMT 3
Mr. Mousavi is Azeri.
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Post by ceonni on Jun 18, 2009 7:36:33 GMT 3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AhmadinejadAhmadinejad, born Mahmoud Saborjhian[23] was the son of a blacksmith, born near Garmsar in the village of Aradan[24] in Talysh family on 28 October 1956.[citation needed] The name, which derives from thread painter, a once common and humble occupation, was changed into Ahmadinejad, meaning 'of the race of Mohammed' or 'of virtuous race', ahmad meaning "virtuous" in Arabic is used as a byname of Muhammad and nejad being the Farsi for "race, lineage". According to his relatives, it was for "a mixture of religious and economic reasons."[25] During the presidential campaign in 2009, political opponents have speculated that the name was changed in order to cover Jewish roots.[26][27] In the 1950s, when he was still a baby, his family moved from Aradan to Narmak district in southern Tehran in search of more economic prosperity;[23] It was during this time period that the Saborjhian family changed its name to Ahmadinejad.[28]
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Post by ceonni on Jun 18, 2009 7:40:44 GMT 3
Mousavi is probably Qizilbash. During one of Mousavi's campaign speeches, I see ethnic dancers wearing Khorasani Turkmen hats which are not typical of the Azeri hats further west. His region probably connects the Azeri traditions and Turkmen traditions. Of course, he is Shiite, not a Sunni Turkmen.
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Post by ceonni on Jun 18, 2009 7:42:49 GMT 3
I guess those people that wear Turkmen hats at the Mousavi speech are probably speakers of Khorasani Turkish. These Turkmens are Qizilbash, and are Shiites. However, they are not as influenced by Caucasian as the Azeris further west.
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Post by ceonni on Jun 18, 2009 8:09:45 GMT 3
Ahmadinejad sounds very clumsy. Many Iranians, whether ethnic Azeri or not, do sound very clumsy when speaking Azeri, due to the poor state of the language from decades of Persianization.
Ahmadinejad is from the lower classes. He is probably not an Azeri, who are heavily represented among the upper middle classes.
However, many of his masters among the cabal of Mollahs who really control Iran, are Azeris. These clerics might be from both conservative and liberal camps. There is no indication that an Azeri background necessarily means liberal affiliation.
However, liberal politics sometimes do find allegiance among those who advocate Azeri rights. Fights concerning anti-Azeri remarks by a cleric did grew nasty earlier this year.
However, among liberals, there are also staunch advocates of Persianization who argue for the superiority of an Aryan civilization based on secular humanism, and for the assimilation, or original "persianness" of Turkic groups in Iran.
Persianization does seem quite successful throughout Iran. However the most conservative elements are probably affiliated with "Arabization" more than anything.
I can actually identify a rough association of three strains of modern Iranian political thoughts with ethnic affinities, however such associations are very loose at best:
1) Authoritarian, conservative, revolutionary political Revivalist Islam, Middle-Easternists, lumpenproletariat, Ithnaashari Jafari stalwarts, Southern===Arabization
2) Westernization, modernization, Shah-loyalism, Shiia exceptionism or strong secularism, Mononationalists, Mazdeanism, Upper Class Intellectuals, Northern, urban ===Persianization
3) Traditional humanism, mild secularism, multiculturalists, Middle Class, Ismailists, mild Sunni Sufi inclinations?, Northwestern === Turco-Mongol Traditions
I am incline to believe that Ahmadinejad is a chimpanzee. He is the ring leader of a gang of lower-class reactionary thugs who stifle progress. Nothing more.
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Post by ceonni on Jun 18, 2009 9:37:21 GMT 3
Even though many Iranian Turkic minorities certainly originated from Turkic cultures absorbing Iranic or Caucasian tribes, their Turkic identity cannot be denied.
If you deny their Turkic, Oghuz or Turkmen identity, you are basically denying the Oghuz Turkmen identity of the Seljuq period beyliks of Anatolia. For these beyliks, like the Iraqi Bayats (called Iraqi Turkmens), basically stem from the same Caucasian Azerbaycani Oghuz tribes that were simply called "Turkmens" when they invaded southward and westward, and gave us the Dede Korkut Destani.
The denial of Turkish origin of Azeris, to the extent of saying that they are "Aryans who pretend to be Turkic", is a product of the assimilationist policy advocated by the staunchly secular, Zoroastrian-revivalist, mononationalist, modernist, westernizing aristocratic class of the Shah's era.
Even though these Shah loyalists are now mainly associated with the liberal camp, with their leadership in exile, their Persianizing policy is actually carried forward by the Ithnaashari clerics' regime as a pragmatic tool to control the minority groups. This is a very oppressive group that sometimes turns on the switch of Arabization, and sometimes that of Persianization.
Azerbaycan, the independent nation, is fortunately governed by governments that respect the Turkist ideal since the fall of the Soviet Union. Azerbaycan will keep the Azeris of Iran from being completely assimilated in a society where they actually have economic dominance.
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Post by ceonni on Jun 19, 2009 5:51:42 GMT 3
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Post by ceonni on Jun 20, 2009 2:31:54 GMT 3
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