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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 19, 2009 2:18:25 GMT 3
The author of that article is the editor of the journal that published the "The Far-East Ancestors of the Magyars" article! HEHEHEHEHEHE.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 19, 2009 13:25:48 GMT 3
LOL ;D But hey, that article is quite good actually, doesn't go to weird assumptions at least
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Post by ALTAR on Dec 20, 2009 0:50:06 GMT 3
"All roads lead to Rome"
We should change this like the below in my opinion
"All articles lead to Choi Han-Woo" ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 20, 2009 16:33:21 GMT 3
ROFL hahaha yes ;D ;D
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Post by ALTAR on Dec 26, 2009 0:38:55 GMT 3
I have a question for our Hungarian Friends.
What is the exact meaning of "Toth"? Is it an ethnical term or word which refers to Slovaks or other Slavs in Hungaria ?
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Post by chichak on Jan 3, 2010 22:40:13 GMT 3
Tót or in older spelling Tóth as a variant (now only in family names) was a Hungarian name denoting various Slavic groups. In modern times it is a terminology denoting Slovaks. It is out of official use since the beginning of the 20th century. The Slovak minority (manly living in South-Eastern Hungary) uses this ethnonim to denote themselves. Although generally in most parts of Hungary (where this minority is absent) it is used as a derogatory term for Slovaks in modern Hungarian. Prior to the 20th century Tót was used by Hungarians for Slovaks, Slovenes and even earlier also for Croatians. Croatia was called as "Tótország" Country of Tóts till the 18th century. Other Slavs were refered to with other names. The Poles were called Lengyel after one of their tribes. The Serbians were called Rác after the administrative district named after the city Raska. Although later the name was used for any Orthodox Christian migrating from the south. Also the Ukranians living in the Kingdom of Hungary were called Ruszin (Ruthenian).
The origin of the word Tót are really interesting. According to linguist György Györffy, it originates from the tribal name of the Gepides and other Germanic peoples: Thuat. The Gepides had created a kingdom in the Carpathian Basin from the 4-5th centuries. During the Avar Empire these Gepides assimilated into the local slavic population. Tuath is a general Germanic demonym. It is present in the demonym of the Teutons and the German Deutsch and the self-name of the Dutch. Hungarians calling certain Slavic groups as Tót came about in uncertain circumstances, but for certain, generally Slavs refered to themselves as "Sloven".
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Post by hjernespiser on Jan 4, 2010 1:16:31 GMT 3
Cool. I've wondered about those names. As soon as I read "tribal name...Germanic peoples: Thuat", I giggled because I knew immediately it must have been cognate with the other names you listed. The Old English cognate is "theod". The Gothic cognate is escaping me at the moment.
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Post by ALTAR on Jan 4, 2010 1:25:56 GMT 3
Tót or in older spelling Tóth as a variant (now only in family names) was a Hungarian name denoting various Slavic groups. In modern times it is a terminology denoting Slovaks. It is out of official use since the beginning of the 20th century. The Slovak minority (manly living in South-Eastern Hungary) uses this ethnonim to denote themselves. Although generally in most parts of Hungary (where this minority is absent) it is used as a derogatory term for Slovaks in modern Hungarian. Prior to the 20th century Tót was used by Hungarians for Slovaks, Slovenes and even earlier also for Croatians. Croatia was called as "Tótország" Country of Tóts till the 18th century. Other Slavs were refered to with other names. The Poles were called Lengyel after one of their tribes. The Serbians were called Rác after the administrative district named after the city Raska. Although later the name was used for any Orthodox Christian migrating from the south. Also the Ukranians living in the Kingdom of Hungary were called Ruszin (Ruthenian). The origin of the word Tót are really interesting. According to linguist György Györffy, it originates from the tribal name of the Gepides and other Germanic peoples: Thuat. The Gepides had created a kingdom in the Carpathian Basin from the 4-5th centuries. During the Avar Empire these Gepides assimilated into the local slavic population. Tuath is a general Germanic demonym. It is present in the demonym of the Teutons and the German Deutsch and the self-name of the Dutch. Hungarians calling certain Slavic groups as Tót came about in uncertain circumstances, but for certain, generally Slavs refered to themselves as "Sloven". Thank you so much for informing, Chichak ! I keep recording that.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 4, 2010 20:06:57 GMT 3
It's very interesting how a Germanic tribal name came to be used to designate the Slavic peoples
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Post by sarmat on Jan 5, 2010 6:24:12 GMT 3
It's very interesting how a Germanic tribal name came to be used to designate the Slavic peoples It's actually quite common. Medieval European Chronists called Baltic Slavs "Vandals," and Ancient Russians "Rugians." And Lithuanians still call Belorussians "Gudas" (Goths).
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Post by hjernespiser on Jan 5, 2010 6:52:21 GMT 3
It must be an effect of location, like Huns being called Scythians because they came to inhabit the same area.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 5, 2010 19:30:56 GMT 3
Ah yes, that's something very common in many medieval cultures from Europe to China.
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Post by hjernespiser on Jan 6, 2010 2:50:51 GMT 3
"The Gepides had created a kingdom in the Carpathian Basin from the 4-5th centuries. During the Avar Empire these Gepides assimilated into the local slavic population."
This is an interesting part. Perhaps Thuat changed into Toth via Avar. I wonder if the Magyars learned this name from Avars or from the Slavs who inhabited the area. Maybe there were trading links with the Carpathian basin prior to Conquest. Indeed Gyula Laszlo theorizes that the late Avars were actually Magyars.
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