Post by hjernespiser on Jan 3, 2009 10:40:31 GMT 3
This is an email I wrote to the mailing list mitologia@hungaria.org back in 1/11/2003. I guess at some point I'll write additions culled from Geza Roheim.
I was rereading a book I have called "Vogul Folklore". It's from the collection of Bernat Munkacsi and edited by Otto J. Von Sadovszky and Mihaly Hoppal (who has written and studied a lot on Eurasian shamanism and Uralic belief systems). One of the appendices of the book is called "Approaches to Mansi Mythology" by Mihaly Hoppal. It's a very interesting read and some of the text on the Uralic background of the mythology sounded suddenly familiar. I was reminded of the Csaba Myth (users.cwnet.com/millenia/Chabalegend.htm).
First let me introduce a character of Mansi mythology, World-Surveyor-Man (Mir-susne-xum). He is a guardian spirit who looks after his people. He is the seventh Son of Heaven with the epithet of Golden Prince-Hero. He rides around the sky on his horse keeping his eyes open for anyone who is sick and he heals them.
Hoppal writes about the Milky Way, it being known as a Way of Birds by the Finns, Ests, Saami, Mansi, and Khanty. This is due to the fact that it stretches north to south, the migration route of wild ducks, geese, and swans. These waterfowl are symbols of rebirth and renewal due to them always returning every year. They also feature in the Uralic creation myths (a duck bringing earth up to the surface of the water in it's beak). The Mansi associate Mir-susne-xum with the Milky Way because he, just like the ever-returning migrating birds, also returns every day to watch over the world (thus he figures as a sun god in his golden attire and daily ride). Mir-susne-xum transforms into a gander or a swan in some of the Mansi myths about him and another epithet of his is Lunt-oter (gander chief). Add on top of that the Mansi believe that when a
person dies their soul becomes a bird and flys on the Way of Birds to the north, which is figured as the Land of the Dead (The south is the Land of Birds). So the Milky Way is not only known as the Way of Birds, but the Way of the Dead. So we now have our list of associations like Mir-susne-xum - Way of Birds - souls.
At this point I'm thinking of Csaba and figuring him as the Hungarian/Szekely version of Mir-susne-xum. Csaba shares with Mir-susne-xum the mythical attributes of being a guardian spirit and traveling on the Way of Souls. Csaba and his army are all dead.
Of additional note on Mir-susne-xum, some studies Hoppal references link the Golden Prince with Mithra, who also has an epithet of "Mithra regards men without blinking" from the Rig-Veda. I could go into more detail about the Iranian/Indic influence of the Ob-Ugrians, but it's outside the context of this email.
I was rereading a book I have called "Vogul Folklore". It's from the collection of Bernat Munkacsi and edited by Otto J. Von Sadovszky and Mihaly Hoppal (who has written and studied a lot on Eurasian shamanism and Uralic belief systems). One of the appendices of the book is called "Approaches to Mansi Mythology" by Mihaly Hoppal. It's a very interesting read and some of the text on the Uralic background of the mythology sounded suddenly familiar. I was reminded of the Csaba Myth (users.cwnet.com/millenia/Chabalegend.htm).
First let me introduce a character of Mansi mythology, World-Surveyor-Man (Mir-susne-xum). He is a guardian spirit who looks after his people. He is the seventh Son of Heaven with the epithet of Golden Prince-Hero. He rides around the sky on his horse keeping his eyes open for anyone who is sick and he heals them.
Hoppal writes about the Milky Way, it being known as a Way of Birds by the Finns, Ests, Saami, Mansi, and Khanty. This is due to the fact that it stretches north to south, the migration route of wild ducks, geese, and swans. These waterfowl are symbols of rebirth and renewal due to them always returning every year. They also feature in the Uralic creation myths (a duck bringing earth up to the surface of the water in it's beak). The Mansi associate Mir-susne-xum with the Milky Way because he, just like the ever-returning migrating birds, also returns every day to watch over the world (thus he figures as a sun god in his golden attire and daily ride). Mir-susne-xum transforms into a gander or a swan in some of the Mansi myths about him and another epithet of his is Lunt-oter (gander chief). Add on top of that the Mansi believe that when a
person dies their soul becomes a bird and flys on the Way of Birds to the north, which is figured as the Land of the Dead (The south is the Land of Birds). So the Milky Way is not only known as the Way of Birds, but the Way of the Dead. So we now have our list of associations like Mir-susne-xum - Way of Birds - souls.
At this point I'm thinking of Csaba and figuring him as the Hungarian/Szekely version of Mir-susne-xum. Csaba shares with Mir-susne-xum the mythical attributes of being a guardian spirit and traveling on the Way of Souls. Csaba and his army are all dead.
Of additional note on Mir-susne-xum, some studies Hoppal references link the Golden Prince with Mithra, who also has an epithet of "Mithra regards men without blinking" from the Rig-Veda. I could go into more detail about the Iranian/Indic influence of the Ob-Ugrians, but it's outside the context of this email.
