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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 25, 2008 19:15:19 GMT 3
Those familiar with the game Total War may know of this Byzantine unit, Vardariotai. " The Vardariotai are drawn mainly from the Magyars that settled in the Vardar Valley, and their descendents. Disciplined and highly trained, the Vardariotai are elite horse archers. They wear light mail to light brigandine armour and fire a composite bow from horseback. Able to relentlessly pepper their enemies with arrows and use their mobility to stay out of trouble. " We know they were Magyar from Byzantine records. For example, the Byzantines called the Magyars "Turks". A seal for Theophylaktos, who was known to be bishop over these Vardariotai, says he was bishop of the Tourkoi. linnet.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/seals/seals_boulloterion.jsp?bKey=266 linnet.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/seals/pbwseals.jsp?bibliographyKey=58"The Vardariotai were a new guards unit first attested in 1160 and originally recruited from Magyar settlers in the Vardar valley." Does anyone know any more information about them? |
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 25, 2008 19:33:22 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 25, 2008 21:12:42 GMT 3
Very interesting  Please keep posting nice stuff like that. |
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Post by ALTAR on Nov 26, 2008 0:41:21 GMT 3
Emperor Constantin Porphyrogenitus (913-959) and Géza I, King of Hungary (1074-1077), who was called the "King of Turks", that is Hungarians, are also present on the circle.www.katolikus.hu/hungariae/katal2-eng.html
1067-1075, Constantinople. The "Greek part" of the Holy Crown of Hungary is made as a gift of the Roman Emperor of Byzantium to the King Géza I (1074-77), called in the inscription on the Crown “Gueovicha, the loyal king of the Turks” (Geovitsas pistos krales tourkias: Geovitsas as Turkic equivalent of the Hungarian Gyeicha, later erroneously transformed in Géza; kral as Király, “King” in Hungarian).www3.hi.is/~maurizio/fiu/HungarianHistory.htm
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Post by ALTAR on Nov 26, 2008 0:46:36 GMT 3
 A Vardariot from Total War ;D |
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 26, 2008 0:55:54 GMT 3
Yes I've heard of Magyar-Byzantine relations, the Magyars had a historically very close friendship with them as strategically the Byzantines needed a northern buffer.
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 26, 2008 6:40:47 GMT 3
What is special about the Vardariotai to me is that they appear to have been outside of the sphere of influence from the rest of the Magyars in the Carpathian Basin. They lived in the Vardar valley in present-day Macedonia supposedly, hence the name Vardariotai.
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Post by MagyarTanhu on Mar 9, 2010 23:08:17 GMT 3
When I played with the Total War I was also shocked to see - what is that. But thank you Hjernespiser and Altar for the info. Very nice - I will read. That is also strange for me. I am not so good from the 11 th century and later but as far I know the relation between the Byzantines and Hungarians were almost always hostile. Just even during the time of conquest according to official doctrines - there was an army group lead by Levente, son of Arpad - probably to fight tactical battles with the Bulgarian at down part, lower part of the Danube somewhere around the delta. I do not think - these forces later stayed there - I have lack of knowledge for this part yet. As far I know was kind of conspiracy or betrayal from the side of Byzantines who even achieved to initiate a Pecheneg attack. But it is rising another problem - also the centuries long rising conflict with the Bulgarian - if Hungarians were related to Onugors so why did they have such a hostile relation to the settled Bulgarians - starting from the war against Bulgarian territories in Pannonia and against Zalan(Salan) till the fight of the former mentioned Levente expedition? How was that possible if both dynasties - Bulgarian and Hungarian ruling dynasties both of were descending themselves from Hunnic origin? So they should have ally and welcome each other as brother nation instead (whether as onogurs OR Hunnic relation) but instead they were mortal enemies... And also in the legends, nothing about Bulgarians except of the notorious case of girl or women robbery, taking. Was it due to Byzantine intrigues or what? Shame, no shame I have little knowledge about this subject, need to read more ... But back to Vardariotai, probably later(11th-13th) hired pagan Hungarian mercenaries? |
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Post by sarmat on Mar 9, 2010 23:42:33 GMT 3
Actually, many steppe people were related, but they still continued bloody wars and massacres of their brothers and cousins. "Relative" or not, didn't mean much in the steppe at some times.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 10, 2010 0:01:19 GMT 3
Indeed, sometimes even cousins, brothers and fathers-and-sons fought between each other During those times, the only really important thing was about who hold the power and authority. |
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Post by hjernespiser on Mar 10, 2010 1:03:55 GMT 3
Wanting to be welcoming to related people and wondering why ancestors weren't like that is perhaps a reflection of our contemporary value system.
I think relations between Hungarians and Byzantines were not as hostile as one may think at first glance. We get the official story on the House of Arpad. We don't get the story on all the other tribes. Vardariotai could be from Magyars fleeing Roman Catholic oppression.
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Post by MagyarTanhu on Mar 10, 2010 1:23:43 GMT 3
Wanting to be welcoming to related people and wondering why ancestors weren't like that is perhaps a reflection of our contemporary value system. Yes but than why were the Conquerors "friendly - (who knows how it was)" to remnants of avars and/or Secler(székely) people to? |
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Post by sarmat on Mar 10, 2010 17:50:19 GMT 3
The origins of Szekely and their relation to Avars (if any) is unclear. It's likely that they actually came with Magyars and were Turkic Kabar clans.
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Post by MagyarTanhu on Mar 11, 2010 14:41:33 GMT 3
The origins of Szekely and their relation to Avars (if any) is unclear. It's likely that they actually came with Magyars and were Turkic Kabar clans. They definitely did not come with the Magyars. They were here before. Kabar settlement of current Carpathian basin was northern part of Hungary and Southern part of current Slovakia. |
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Post by sarmat on Mar 11, 2010 18:28:36 GMT 3
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Please keep posting nice stuff like that.
